Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday, 19 May 2025

Welcome. Hey, well, kia ora, good afternoon, everyone. Before I begin, can I just congratulate the legend that is Ardie Savea and just say how fantastic it is that he’s won the Super Rugby player of the tournament before the tournament is even finished, and what we saw on the weekend was a pretty standout performance and great leadership.

Anyway, I digress. I’ll get back to the purpose, which is that I want to say welcome to Budget Week. That’s what we’re here to do this week. I am joined by Finance Minister Nicola Willis, who just in three days’ time will deliver her second Budget, and it will be a Budget that provides economic stability, that supports investment, and makes New Zealand an attractive place for the world to trade and to do business with. It will be in stark contrast to what we’ve seen from the Opposition, which wants to ramp the debt up and hike income tax to the point where nurses will have their take-home pay reduced. And on top of all of that, they’re prepared to release violent prisoners into the community to make their spending promises stack up. Our budget will be more responsible than this. Our Budget will be a growth Budget, and as evidence of this, the finance Minister will soon walk you through some changes that we’re introducing to remove tax roadblocks to investment.

But before that, I want to talk about why we’re focusing on growth in this year’s Budget. The cost of living crisis, fuelled by the wasteful spending of the previous administration, has been hurting Kiwis for too long. The price we pay for almost everything has gone up harder and faster than we’ve been used to because of red hot inflation. The good news is that through careful economic management over the past 18 months, we have turned a corner and the economy is getting back on track. We have inflation back under control, getting it down from over 7 percent to 2.5 percent by stopping Government wasteful spending. That lower inflation has in turn then brought interest rates down and Kiwis are now seeing the benefit of that in lower mortgage repayments.

The economy is out of recession, with the Reserve Bank forecasting economic growth of 2.4 percent for 2025. New Zealand’s finances are under control and we’re on track to reach surplus in 2028 to 2029. We’ve put a lid on Government debt, which blew out by $120 billion between 2019 and 2024, a staggering $22,000 extra for every New Zealander. Rents are now flat after skyrocketing by $180 a week under Labour, and most importantly, most importantly, wages are growing faster than inflation, so now when Kiwis get a pay bump, it isn’t just being eaten up by everyday costs to the extent that it was under Labour, when the cost of living was so high that between 2020 and 2023, average wages rose only $82 a year after inflation. In contrast, the average annual wage after inflation has increased by more than $1,100 since the last election, and that’s great news, fantastic news for working Kiwis.

But there’s more for us to do and what New Zealand now needs is a sustained period where wages rise faster than the cost of what people are buying, so that they can get ahead of the price hikes that they saw under the previous Government. It’s only through growing the economy and encouraging more investment that we will achieve this. A growing economy, as we say, makes—it creates more jobs, it raises incomes, and it gives Kiwis more money to deal with the cost of living.

Our relentless focus on growth is why you won’t see an irresponsible spending spree in the Budget. New Zealand simply cannot afford it or put it at risk. Just like every household, we’ve made tough choices about what we spend our money on to make ends meet, but we’re confident that we’ve invested taxpayers’ money where it will have the most impact. And with that, I’ll hand over to Nicola to talk a little bit more about further action we’ll take in Budget 2025 to promote economic growth, with two tax changes designed to encourage greater investment in the economy from offshore and within New Zealand’s dynamic start-up community.

As the Prime Minister just said, an economic recovery is now underway in New Zealand that is good news for all Kiwis. However, we must not take that recovery for granted. Our Budget must address underlying challenges that could stand in the way of fiscal repair and economic growth. The Budget has been put together in very constrained circumstances. The last Government effectively left the kitty bare, worse than that, in serious overdraft, and New Zealand is now running out of credit cards.

The most important thing our Government must ensure in this Budget is that we protect and enhance economic growth. To grow the economy, we need more investment in the things that make businesses productive. Low capital intensity and low rates of foreign direct investment have been identified as key contributors to New Zealand’s relatively low levels of productivity. They mean that our workers are often at a disadvantage when compared with their international counterparts because they are working with less sophisticated tools and machinery. Low rates of foreign investment also mean that New Zealand sometimes misses out on the knowledge and expertise that comes with foreign capital.

Therefore, I am announcing today that the Budget sets aside $65 million over the next four years to adjust New Zealand’s thin capitalisation regime in order to support more investment in New Zealand infrastructure. Right now, New Zealand’s thin capitalisation rules limit the amount of tax-deductible debt that foreign investors can put into New Zealand investments. The purpose of these rules is to prevent income being shifted offshore and to protect New Zealand’s tax base. However, there is a risk that we have identified that the rules may be deterring investment, particularly in capital-intensive infrastructure projects that are typically funded by large amounts of debt. Therefore, it is our intention to adjust the rules once we have finished consulting on the details. Inland Revenue is releasing a consultation document today, available on their website, so that changes can be made in the tax bill scheduled for introduction in August.

The Budget also sets aside another $10 million over four years to make it easier for Kiwi start-ups to compete and to attract and retain high-quality staff. In my relatively new role as Minister of Economic Growth, one of the things that I’ve been struck by is the large number of clever, enterprising Kiwis creating businesses out of new ways of doing things. Many of these new businesses include equity in the business as part of the payment package they offer their staff. But problems arise if tax bills for their income on these shares arrives when workers are unable to realise the value of their shares—that is, they haven’t sold them yet but they’re already having to pay tax on them. Therefore, we are changing the rules to allow tax to be deferred until what the tax experts call a liquidity event, such as the sale of the shares. We need to make it as easy as possible for the next Rocket Lab and Wētā FX to emerge. The changes will also be introduced in the August tax bill.

These tax changes are modest in scale, but they demonstrate the Government’s commitment to driving economic growth. I’ll have a little more to say about that topic on Budget Day. Prime Minister, back to you.

Well, thank you, Nicola. Just quickly on the week ahead, I’ll be in Wellington Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, obviously, for the Budget on Thursday. On Friday, I’ll be in Auckland at various post-Budget events. And with that, we’re happy to take your questions. Sorry, can we go to Jo?

Those are decisions for the Privileges Committee. As you know, the debate will happen tomorrow and we’ll deal with that tomorrow.

No, we have a privileges committee that’s empowered to make those decisions and determine what’s the appropriate punishment. The issue here is not about haka and waiata, as I keep seeing reported. The issue here is about actually parties not following the rules of Parliament. For our democracy to work, we need to have rules in this place, otherwise it devolves into absolute chaos. It’s really important that we actually have—everyone who comes here understands their obligations to actually follow the rules of Parliament. And that’s what the Privileges Committee has determined, and we support it.

No. No.

No. The privileges committee make that decision. They are empowered. We have representatives, as every party does, in the privileges committee, and the determination from the privileges committee we support.

Yes, our caucus position’s really clear. We support the privileges committee, of which we have representation on.

I don’t need to, Jo. We know our position. Our position is we have representation on the privileges committee with National Party members, as do all other political parties. They have made a determination and we support that.

Sure.

Sure, and there’ll be a debate tomorrow.

Well, I’d just say if that’s the choice of the Opposition to actually filibuster that, that’s up to them. So be it. I’d just say to you that New Zealanders up and down this country actually want us focused on them. That’s what I’m doing. That’s what Nicola’s doing. That’s why we’re focused on a Budget that’s actually about growing the economy and supporting Kiwis. So we’re focused on what matters most to New Zealanders, and what matters right—most to them right now is that we’re actually helping them on the economy.

Reject that outright. The privileges committee comprises of senior representatives from all the political parties in Parliament. They made a determination and that’s up to them.

Well, let’s see. Let’s see.

Let’s see. I mean, we’ll have an opportunity tomorrow, and I’d just say I think if the Opposition wants to go that way, I think that is not what most reasonable-minded New Zealanders watching what’s happening here would say that’s right. They want us to get on with the business of government and the business of—that’s of interest to New Zealanders. What we’re doing by putting together a Budget that’s about growth and is responsible. And, you know, frankly, if they want to muck around, then so be it. Sorry, Maiki.

We want to back business to succeed, we on your side and our Budget is designed to give you even more confidence for the future. We back business because we need you to create the jobs that New Zealanders need, to create the growing incomes that New Zealanders need. Make no mistake, this Government is on your side.

I’m not going to make any comments on KiwiSaver today. Just a few days to wait.

I’m not going to make any comments on KiwiSaver today, just a few days to wait.

Well, the last Government left us with debt at extraordinary levels. It is now higher than it has been since the mid-1990s. We cannot let that debt keep blowing out forever because if we do so, we are putting future New Zealanders at risk. We’re putting all of us at risk if there’s a major event that requires more borrowing. So our Government has set out a clear strategy to get the debt curve bending down. That’s the responsible course of action and our Budget will demonstrate progress towards it.

No. We risk the economy crumbling away if we allow major extra taxes to be put on New Zealanders, if we allow such excessive borrowing that it drives up inflation and interest rates. That is the prescription being offered by the Opposition and that would put New Zealand’s economic recovery at risk and every New Zealand family with it.

Well, I think you’re going to see that with this Budget. I mean the Budget is part of our journey to make sure that this is a country that is growing strongly, that is set up and managed well financially and economically, and that actually New Zealanders know that if they work hard in New Zealand they can get ahead. And so everything we’re doing, as I said from the beginning of the year, is designed to come through the lens of growth. Growth matters above everything else. You know, we need economic growth in New Zealand so that we can put more money back into Kiwis’ pockets, but importantly, to deliver and invest in the public services that we actually know Kiwis want and deserve, and so that’s what we’re doing here.

And I think we’ve found the right way—you’ll see it on Thursday—where we’re actually saying, look, yeah, we don’t want to go commit to a whole bunch of new borrowing or new taxes. That’s not the way forward. I hear that from the Opposition. We’ve been there before. That’s what caused this problem in the beginning. But equally, we have started to turn the corner but we don’t want to put any of that at risk. And therefore, good, prudent, you know, responsible management, while also, as Nicholas foreshadowed, good investments in healthcare and education. You’ve started to see some of those pre-Budget announcements come through. Obviously, transport, infrastructure, and also economic growth. So, you know, we are—you know, we are balancing, I think we’ve got—we’ve got the balance right and New Zealanders will see that this is a really good step forward for us and where we want to go as a country.

Again, we don’t talk about what we’ve discussed in Cabinet. I’d just say the Regulatory Standards Bill is, as you know, designed to improve the quality of lawmaking, to make it more transparent.

Well, David Seymour can say whatever he likes to. I’m just telling you my position is I don’t talk about what happens in Cabinet.

Again, you’ll have to wait and see.

Well, look, I mean, as I said, if you just take a step back, what is the original—what is the purpose of this bill? It is actually designed to make sure that Ministers are making good regulation. It’s to make sure there’s more transparency over regulation. It’s pretty, you know, dull but very worthy sort of stuff. It’s important. But importantly is also there’s a lot of consultation that’s needed because the devil’s in the detail, and so ultimately this Bill will come to the House. There’ll be a discussion through a select committee process. There’s complexity in it. The devil’s in the detail of actually what gets implemented, and we’ll work our way through that as we’ll have another conversation.

Well, the Tribunal—the Tribunal has a range of views on a range of things, which obviously we consider, but I’m just saying to you what the Bill was actually about.

I disagree. I mean, I disagree. We consider what the Waitangi Tribunal will say and then, you know, you will see a Bill come to the House in due course.

Well, I’ll let—I’ll let—

Yeah, look, I’ll Winston Peters talk for New Zealand First and their position around that, but I’d just say to you what we do acknowledge, a bit like fast track legislation, this is a really complex piece of legislation. It’s really important that actually the Bill is strengthened through the course of a parliamentary process of select committees and second readings, etc, and that’s what we’ll do here.

Look, I’m not characterising it that way. We are—each of those issues are different issues and I’m happy to debate each and every one of them with you. You know, as I said— and you want to bundle them all up and make a question like that. I’m not responding to that.

Well, I wouldn’t use those words. They were questions that a member of the media asked me. All I’m just saying to you is that what we’re interested in is the Government’s making sure we advance outcomes for Māori and non-Māori. That’s why you’ve seen us invest $200 million, for example, in Māori housing. That’s why I was in, you know, Tairāwhiti last week, actually opening up another 149 houses that have been done in conjunction with iwi, Government, and business to deliver those homes. So there’s a lot of good things that we’re doing to advance interest for Māori and a lot of really positive conversations happening with iwi. A good example would be the billion-dollar investment between Brookfield and Waikato-Tainui that fell out of the back of the infrastructure summit, and is a good example of what we want to see a lot more of.

I wouldn’t characterise or use that word in that way, personally. Just not the way I’d describe things. I want to make sure—

I want to make sure that actually we’re delivering outcomes for Māori and non-Māori. I’ve been very straight up about that from day one. You guys get sick of me saying it but that’s what it’s about.

I’m unaware of that. Those are decisions, obviously, for the Speaker to make.

Again, decisions for the Speaker. I’m responsible for leading the Executive. The Speaker’s responsible for Parliament.

Well, look, I mean, we have a very special relationship with the Cook Islands. As you know, it’s coming up 60 years and, you know, we—with that it’s a very special constitutional arrangement where we have certain rights and responsibilities to each other, and obviously as a Realm country we take our obligations incredibly seriously. Any change or evolution of those arrangements, we’re always up for the conversation, but it would need to come from the Cook Islands people.

Well, look, again, you know, it’s—I’m not going to react just to an individual’s idea. Anything that is concrete and proposed would come through proper channels for proper debate, discussion. But we do have very strong constitutional arrangements with the Realm country arrangement that has obligations on both parties. But again, this is up to the Cook Islands people to determine, and we listen to them very carefully.

Tom.

How are you?

Good.

Because it will all be revealed on Budget Day on Thursday when you get the total picture of our fiscal situation.

Well, the reason that I’ve said is the Budget number is sensitive and it needs to be seen in the context of our whole fiscal plan, which will be presented on Thursday.

Well, we’ll introduce a number of pieces of legislation on Thursday. Some of them we’ll want to pass through all stages. Others will just be introduced for a first reading.

I’m not concerned by that. I’m confident that the Budget will be a priority for all members of Parliament. After all, the Budget is what keeps the lights on in our hospitals, our schools, and ensures that New Zealanders can get their superannuation payments, their welfare payments, and I would be surprised if any member of Parliament would want to stand in the way of that happening.

Yeah, look, I mean—I mean, obviously we want to encourage businesses to invest big time. There’s a number of things that we’re doing, we’ve already pre-announced. There’ll be, no doubt, other things we’ll talk about on Budget Day as well. But, you know, we want— we want—we’re doing everything we can, as you’ve seen over the course of the last 18 months, to make sure that our businesses—whether it’s about removing red tape and complexity and costs that are—that are loading them up. We want them freed up to be able to grow and expand their businesses so that they can take on more workers and pay higher wages. It’s pretty simple.

And so we are a pro-business Government, deliberately, because we know that’s what drives economic growth. We create the conditions for the growth, but it’s actually our business community that steps up and actually creates the businesses and the ideas that delivers and generates that growth. And so we want to do everything we can to get the settings as positive as possible for them to do the very best that they can.

Hypothetical conversation. All I was expressing was, you know, that’s an interesting thought and idea. I’m sure it comes with a huge cost as well so, I mean, let’s park that up and we’ll...

Can I just be clear about something, which is there have been some commentators in the media in recent days who have proposed that there could be on the cards a 100 percent expensing or depreciation regime and that would come with a fiscal price tag of

$34 billion over the next four years, more than $8 billion a year. So you’ll understand, no, that’s not on the cards for this Budget.

Look, I’m going to leave comments on these matters to Budget Day.

Bryce, sorry.

Look, we—I haven’t. It’s not been a topic of conversation thus far today. We’ve got our caucus meeting tomorrow. It might be something we discuss there.

I genuinely haven’t had a conversation about that. In fairness, we haven’t had a caucus meeting this week.

Well, we have a series of pre-Budget announcements, which is what you’ve seen over the last couple of weeks as we’ve gone through different areas. Not everything’s been revealed and understandably so, but we need to be able to present that coherency of that total package and that fiscal position on Thursday and that’s why we’ve made that decision.

Well, again, as I—I don’t know how to explain it. I just answered that before. I mean, we see this as being part of a total fiscal package that we need to present on Budget day and as a result, that will be revealed in a couple of days’ time.

Sure. Sure it is.

But we always announce—we always have pre-Budget announcements. There’s a series of them, a package of them. We made a set that we decided we wanted to announce before. There’ll be things that we also announce on Budget day as well.

Well, as I said before, we want to be able to present the total fiscal package and that’s what we can do comprehensively on Budget Day.

Not at all. You’ll hear us talking about pay equity and the projected costs and how they may be different on Budget day.

Have to say I like the way he used your surname, [Inaudible].

Look, sometimes in Parliament it is not a matter of personal view. The privileges committee have made a ruling which is designed to uphold the standards of conduct in Parliament. There is a clear procedure by which that will be debated in Parliament and parties will cast their vote and I can confirm that the National Party will be supporting the privileges committee.

Well, Tom, it’s not about me, but the reflection I would offer is that I think New Zealanders are sick of the circus in Parliament. They want to see their members of Parliament focused on the issues that matter to them, which fundamentally are around the cost of living, their health services, their education services, the future of the New Zealand economy. So I think any party that chooses to have a chaotic distraction from that is going to find themselves pretty quickly out of line with everyday Kiwis who just want to see MPs get on with serving them.

Sorry, can I just go to Benedict?

Yeah, look, firstly, can I thank you for your story, I saw the first part of it last night. Look, we—it is incredibly worrying what is happening with meth. From our best understanding, what we’re seeing is global prices have collapsed and within that context prices are lower in New Zealand, but still New Zealand’s relativity to global prices is still very, very high. And we’ve got—you know, as you would have found in your own reporting, actually people trying to get to the root cause of why has it spiked so dramatically in the latter part of 2024. That’s something that I’ve tasked our Ministers with as well.

I think there’s three things we’ve got to do. One is we have to make sure that we’ve got very strong borders in place. Two, we have to disrupt distribution, and you highlighted, I think, five towns last night where that’s a major challenge. And thirdly, we have to make sure we’ve got better addiction services in place as well. So I’ve asked the relevant Ministers to form a small sprint team. They’re due very shortly to come back to me as to what can we do immediately to jump on board that. But if we need more resources to fight that, we will put that in place.

We can’t afford not to. Meth is a real scourge on all New Zealanders and I think everybody has, through a family or a friend, has had someone impacted by that across this country. And we’re doing everything we can to give police powers to crack down on gangs which distribute the illegal drugs, and meth in particular. We’re doing everything we can to give police powers and authority to really get down on—with the gang unit increases that we’ve put in place. Even the beat police being out on patrol, that’s helping. But again, you know, we’ve got a real issue here and actually we’ve really got to get to the root cause of it, and actually I suspect it will be in those three spaces but we need to make sure we’ve got a full court press on it, absolutely.

Again, our National Party position, and I can only speak to the National Party, is—

We have representation from our party on the privileges committee. The privileges committee has functioned over a number of years, dealing with a number of different disputes. We back the privileges committee decision and that’s what our party’s doing.

No.

Well, he may be expressing an Act Party view on that and, you know, whatever. I mean, the bottom line is that we’ve got a Government position, which is that we are backing this industry. The reality is that every—you may not like these subsidies and I get it. I usually don’t like subsidies to industries either. But every country on Earth offers rebates in the way that we do, and I’d just say to you that, you know, we have an outstanding film industry. It employs 24,000 people. I think over the last 10 years we’ve, you know, attracted $7.5 billion worth of productions, we’ve paid out about $1.5 billion of actual rebates, and when you think about it—since late ‘23 I think we’ve had 10 productions in this country, eight from Hollywood, including, you know, a Minecraft story as well. So I mean, I think, you know, this is an industry that’s doing incredibly well. The rebates kind of work but it’s just the ticket that you have to pay in order to actually get productions in your country, and I—and New Zealand’s a fantastic place to do film production. That’s why I talked about it in India and I talk about it everywhere I go.

Well, I’d just say to you we’ve got a—we’ve got a Government position. We’re supporting it. It’s happening. The money’s going in. We’re backing this industry big time. That’s the Government’s position.

Well, as I’ve said to you, like, you know, I just—I just wouldn’t get too—I wouldn’t get too hung up on it, I’d just—

No, I’d just—I’d just say to you, look, don’t get too hung up on it. I said to you from day one we’re in a three-party coalition in a mature MMP environment. If I’m sitting in the Netherlands or I’m sitting in Germany or I’m sitting in other countries that have the same system that we have, Finland, others, it’s quite normal there is different ways of expressing things and there’ll be differences from the different party leaders within a coalition. But I’m just saying to you, our Government position is really crystal clear. We are backing the film industry, period.

It’s still an ongoing—thank you for the question, Jo. It’s still an ongoing point of conversation.

Oh, look, again, I’m not pre-empting any Budget conversations, but—

Well, as I’ve said to you before, we’ve got a position, which is that, you know, we went to the election with a policy. We think we probably could lift the—as I said this morning, we could lift the threshold but obviously that’s a discussion with New Zealand First we have to have. As you know, we also have policies that are different from New Zealand First. Think superannuation age. It’s no different here. So we’ve got to work our way through that and see if we can find a way through it.

Well, you saw public comments from Winston, I think it was, last year where he said, look, you know, there’s—you know, he’s not against investment into New Zealand and that’s been good. That’s evidenced by the pro-investment settings that we’ve been able to put through as a Government. But look, on that particular issue, which is not the be-all and end-all of attracting investment to New Zealand, it’s a component of it, it’s an important part, it’s a piece of it but it’s not the only part of it—

No, no, no, we just—we have a coalition conversation, which we’ll continue to have. There’s a very strong position from New Zealand First, a strong position from National. We’ll see whether we can find a way through. If not, we’ll move forward. Sorry, Luke.

Yeah, I’ve called it the growth Budget for a reason. I think the major challenge for New Zealand is not about how we can nickel and dime our way to surplus, it’s about how we can grow our economy faster. And if you look back over the past 30 years, we haven’t been growing fast enough and that’s why New Zealanders’ incomes haven’t risen as much as they have in many other countries. That’s why our Government’s books haven’t been in the position we would wish them to be in.

So in this Budget I very much had my Economic Growth Minister hat on, thinking about what are the things we can do now that will not only secure the economic recovery that’s currently underway, but will drive us onto a higher growth trajectory for the future. We have long-standing challenges with productivity and investment, and I’m determined that our Government will make changes now that will pay off for many years to come. It’s not just a short-term budget, it’s a budget for the long term.

There will be, and I just reiterate again, within the significant constraints that we face. The last Government left us in severe overdraft. There’s a huge amount of cleaning up for us to do, and so the vast majority of new initiatives that we will deliver in our Budget will be funded from savings, because without those savings, we would need to either impose significant additional taxes on New Zealanders or borrow to levels that would put our economy at risk. So, within those constraints, we have done our utmost to get behind growth.

Sorry, can you say that again? A good announcement?

It was, wasn’t it?

Well, I’m very excited about the potential for the Government to work even more with Māori institutions to deliver housing, and that’s because oftentimes, whether it’s iwi, hapū, or other Māori-led organisations, what they bring to the equation is Māori land that would otherwise not be developed, and that of course reduces the potential cost of new housing. So that is something that Minister Potaka and Minister Bishop are very conscious of and as we move to deliver more affordable housing for New Zealanders, we want to make the most of those opportunities.

Well, I’d leave Mr Bishop to look at the specifics of those numbers, but what I would say is that Māori housing providers are making a significant and very much appreciated contribution to addressing New Zealand’s housing challenges.

And I’d just say I thought that—I thought that project was a very good one, to be honest, because it showed us the model going forward. There’s $200 million going into Māori housing, you know, that was 149 houses built in Tairāwhiti when we know there’s been a programme of about 500 houses that we’ve needed to get in there. But the combination of iwi working with Government, with business, to actually get the scale of those houses through, the quality of that build of house through, to identify the families that desperately need it—I met the families that were actually about to go into the first houses. It was a pretty special, pretty emotional day, actually. And also then to have a Government with Ministers like Tama Potaka and Chris Bishop that have actually created the environment for that to happen, I think is pretty cool.

So, OK, we’ll go to Lloyd and then we’ll go to Thomas. Last question.

I said nothing about KiwiSaver and I won’t be saying anything about KiwiSaver until Budget day.

I’m not ruling anything in or out. There’s just three days to go. It’ll be very clear on Budget Day.

I’ve made it clear that I want to see New Zealanders’ KiwiSaver balances grow and I’ll have more to say about that on Budget day.

I’ll have more to say about our KiwiSaver policy on Budget day.

It’s Monday today, Lloyd. Thursday’s coming shortly. OK, Thomas, last question.

Look, I’m sorry, I’m not going into the conversations of a privileges committee. We haven’t previously spoken about privileges committees. We let them get on and do their work with senior representation from all parties in Parliament to actually make sure that Parliament functions in the way that it’s supposed to function. All I think is if you’re a New Zealander watching Parliament and all of this, that looks like a massive distraction, frankly, from what they care about. We have a privileges committee. We have a clear process. We need to have rules in this place so that we can actually discuss difficult and emotional subjects without order breaking down, and we back this privileges committee and the decision they’ve made.

That’s not what the privileges committee has proposed.

Well, I’m not going to comment on privileges committee’s conversation because I’m not a member of the privileges committee. That’s why we have a set of senior MPs that are part of that committee. It’s a very serious body. It deals with serious issues about parliamentary behaviour, and I think any conversation outside of that group is really unhelpful. We haven’t done that in the past. We expect those conversations to happen inside that committee and to be dealt with by that committee. They’re entrusted as parliamentarians to represent all the parties that are there. So, you know, for me, I’m just saying to you, yeah, we—you know, New Zealanders want us to get on and actually help them dealing with the cost of living, getting our economy growing, getting money in their back pockets. That’s what we’re focused on.

That was the last question, Thomas, and as I said, I’ll refer you to my further— answer just before, which is we don’t talk—I don’t talk about privileges committee or what happens in there because I’m not a member of privileges committee, as you know. Cool, thank you, team. Have a good week.