Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday, 28 July 2025

Hello, everybody. Good afternoon to you all. The cost of living is without doubt the key issue for all Kiwis, and outside all of the noise of what happens here in Wellington and across the world, the thing that people go to bed at night and wake up in the morning thinking about is paying their mortgage or their rent, buying their groceries, filling up the car and having enough left over for school uniforms, Christmas presents or treats for the kids every now and then.

That is why this Government is so focused on the economy and growing the economy, because it’s only through a strong economy that wages rise faster than inflation, that Kiwis can get ahead of their daily costs and our businesses can take risks that can mean that they can invest, grow and create more jobs. Now, other parties in Parliament believe that raising taxes, growing the public sector and giving more handouts to those who refuse to work is the answer.

Spending more, taxing more and borrowing more, as Labour and others advocate for, didn’t work in the past and it won’t work in the future.

While inflation is down to 2.7 percent from the highs of 7.3 percent under Labour, the reality is that Kiwis are still trying to catch up after years of increases fuelled by Labour’s wasteful spending and borrowing. This week marks a full year since tax relief was introduced, and soon the Minister of Finance will recap a range of other measures taken by the Government to ease the pressure on Kiwis.

You will have seen yesterday that we are taking action on another driver of the cost of living in New Zealand, the cost of building, by allowing thousands of additional building products to be used from overseas. Anyone who has built or repaired a home or saved up to do renovations will tell you that the cost of doing so is largely driven by the cost of building products and competition is much needed.

And a new measure announced today will ensure that Kiwis are—the price Kiwis see on the price tag is the same one that they pay at the checkout. Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister, Scott Simpson, has announced that the Government will ban in-store credit and debit card surcharges like PayWave fees. You will no longer be penalised for your choice of payment method, whether that’s tapping, swiping or using your phone’s digital wallet.

Measures like these are important, but the most important thing we can do to make you better off is to double down on our long-term economic plan. While our economy grew four times as fast as Australia’s in the first three months of this year, global uncertainty continues to pose a risk, and that makes it even more crucial to continue pushing ahead with our economic plan— like $6 billion of infrastructure projects starting by Christmas, with several billion more in value going through the fast track process; like building roads of national significance and completing the City Rail Link to unlock investment in Auckland; like signing new deals with the UAE, GCC, and launching trade negotiations with India; like introducing digital nomad visas, lifting our presence offshore to attract tourists and also international students; and like backing small businesses to grow with Investment Boost and getting Wellington out of farmers’ way so they can keep driving our economic recovery.

These are just some of the actions that we are taking to grow our economy. Kiwis hear a lot of noise from people who want us to keep saying no. No to building roads, no to mining, no to farming, no to foreign investment. But we’re not interested in the noise. We’re here to get our economy moving and to build a better future for every New Zealander. And with that, to share more about the cost of living, I’ll pass on to Nicola.

Thank you, Prime Minister. As you said, it’s almost exactly a year since the tax relief delivered in last year’s Budget took effect. National campaigned on tackling the cost of living crisis. And the cost of living, of course, is the relationship between two things: how much people earn and the prices they pay. Under the previous Government prices rose very rapidly, with annual inflation reaching 7.3 percent, the highest level since 1990. Wages across the economy couldn’t and didn’t match that spike in inflation. For eight consecutive quarters, GDP per capita, an overall measure of living standards, was zero, or negative. That is a cost of living crisis. We are now playing catch-up. GDP per capita has now risen in the past two quarters and the Government is focused on addressing both the income side and the cost side of the cost of living.

The tax relief implemented in Budget 2024 delivered on the income side of the equation. We lifted the bottom three tax thresholds and made a range of targeted tax measures. This resulted in a reduction in income tax for everyone earning more than $14,000 a year. The other changes tilted the benefits of the package towards low to middle-income working families with children. Those have been hit hardest by rising prices. In the year since, households have benefited by an average of $60 a fortnight from those tax changes. That adds up to about $1,560 a year for the average household. Many families have benefited by significantly more. And it’s easy for our opponents in Parliament to make nothing of that. I think if you were to ask most families whether they would miss that money right now, they certainly would.

More than 65,000 households have received additional help with their early childhood costs from FamilyBoosts, and changes announced recently will increase that support and extend it to more families. Other measures taken to help people with the cost of living include: returning the Reserve Bank to a central focus on controlling inflation; bringing Government spending back under control to support the Reserve Bank in that job; making sensible changes to residential tenancy laws; aligning the tax treatment of interest costs for rental properties with other investment types; scrapping the last Government’s plan to increase petrol taxes by 12 cents a litre over three years; scrapping the Auckland regional fuel tax; increasing rates rebates for seniors and extending them up to 66,000 more SuperGold cardholders; increasing Working for Families support for low to middle-income families; and extending maximum prescription lengths from three to 12 months.

Taking the pressure off inflation—that is the general level of price increases across the economy—helps with the cost side of the cost of living equation. Lower inflation means less pressure on prices. The other side of the equation is, of course, wages so that people can keep up with the modern cost of living, some costs of which, of course, are international in nature. So it’s pleasing to say that wages are now growing faster than inflation and forecasts show this trend continuing over the next few years. Of course, people’s individual circumstances vary, and that is not to deny that there are certainly families who continue to find things tough.

The official cash rate has fallen from 5.5 percent in August last year to 3.25 percent. Mortgage rates have come down broadly in step with that. This is significant. For someone who refixes a $500,000 mortgage, repayable over 25 years, that can mean about $300 more a fortnight in the pocket. And the positive news is that while some families are already benefiting from that reduction in their repayments, we know that many, many mortgage holders are yet to refix and feel that benefit. They will be feeling that benefit in the coming months as they re-fix their mortgages. That benefit will go to them and their household budget, but critically, is also likely to flow through to their local shops and their local restaurants.

Giving landlords the confidence to re-enter the market and restore—by restoring deductibility for mortgage interest has helped to take the heat out of the rental market. It is difficult to know how much more rents would have increased without that change, but certainly our advice was there would have been a lot more upward pressure on rents. The 2.6 percent increase in rents for the year to June was the lowest since 2011.

Scrapping the Auckland regional fuel tax has saved affected motorists 11.5 cents a litre every time they fill up. Increasing the threshold for eligibility for rates rebates will help up to 66,000 more seniors with their rates repayments. And the changes to Working for Families announced in this recent budget will deliver an average of $14 extra a fortnight to about 142,000 low to middle-income families. Again, it’s easy to poo-poo that, but the absence of that money would make a difference to those families. Extending prescription lengths will save thousands of patients on stable long-term medications the cost and the bother of renewing prescriptions every few months.

These specific changes count, but we are also undertaking structural work on cost pressures that exist in significant sectors of our economy. This is about more than just band-aids. The last Government conclusively proved that band-aids are not enough. This includes, for example, our housing growth agenda, going for housing growth to increase housing supply to tackle the underlying issues that have made housing unaffordable in New Zealand. This includes the work we’re doing to incentivise and fast-track renewable electricity generation, the work underway to increase supermarket competition, and work to address rising council rates. It is true to say that none of those policy agendas delivers overnight, but the absence of them leads to long-term structural challenges for our economy, and our Government is determined to tackle them.

As I said, we know many people are still doing it tough, and the economy is recovering from a protracted downturn. However, we know that the fundamental changes we are making will deliver. Economies are like oil tankers, you can’t turn them around on a dime, but New Zealand is back on course. Our Government is laying the foundations for sustainable income growth through better economic performance, because fundamentally we understand that to drive sustainable income growth, we have to make this a wealthier economy and country. And that is why we are focused on the fundamental drivers of successful economies internationally: developing talent by better educating our kids, competitive business settings including the Investment Boost tax credit, promoting global trade and investment because we won’t get rich selling to ourselves, innovation, technology and science, and getting more bang for our buck on investments there, infrastructure for growth, delivering infrastructure projects faster and better. Ultimately, the way to grow people’s incomes and help them with the cost of living is to grow the economy, and that’s why this Government is working so hard on that agenda. Prime Minister, I’ll hand back to you.

Thank you, Nicola. Look, just before we take any questions, movements this week. I’m in Wellington until Friday. Solomon Islands Prime Minister Jeremiah Manele is visiting New Zealand this week and I really look forward to spending some time with him on Thursday, discussing opportunities to further our bilateral relationship. Tomorrow in the House we’ll have the first reading of the Electoral Amendment Bill, as well as the committee stage of the Local Government (Water Services) Amendment Bill. Wednesday is a Members’ day and Thursday will be the third reading of the Crown Minerals Bill. And with that, we’re very happy to take your questions. Jamie?

Yeah, look, historically what’s happened is that the public sector director fees have got completely out of whack out of our compared to private sector fees. Obviously, we will never pay as much as someone in the private sector but when you’re spending $32 billion on healthcare, for example, it’s important that we actually are able to attract really good governors of, say, the Health New Zealand Board, for example. So, you know, this is just acknowledging that we need to make sure that we can attract good people. It’s really important, given the huge amounts of money that we’re spending, that it’s well-governed, well-maintained, and it’s just— while we’ll never, ever pay what’s in the private sector, the reality is we need to do better than what we have been doing.

No, I fully understand it, but actually, when you’re spending $32 billion, as I said, in healthcare, and we have got so out of whack by not lifting fees over a long period of time, we need to make sure that we’ve got a competitive enough offering to be able to attract good people that we know can make a huge difference and can actually generate huge value for money, and savings, as a consequence of having a good board and good directors on board.

Well, our message is pretty clear. It’s exactly what we’ve just been talking about now with both Nicola and I, in our remarks, which is that we are ruthlessly clear about lowering the cost of living for New Zealanders. We’re doing that by making sure we get inflation under control, we get interest rates under control, we get growth into the economy. We’ve done it with a series of initiatives. Just think about what we’ve been doing over the course of the last, you know, couple of weeks: $6 billion into new infrastructure, a brand new medical school, the work that we announced yesterday around the building products, the work that we’re announcing today around removing surcharges and fees for people. You know, they’re all practical things that we’re doing, acknowledging that it’s still tough for people, but we actually have a good plan and what we need to do is get the fundamentals right so that we actually come through this economic cycle, not just coming through the other side but actually shaping where we want this country to go, which is a long way.

Sure, and we’re working—

We understand—we understand we’ve got some real challenges in our housing market. That’s why we’re trying to make it easier to build more houses so that more people can be accommodated in safe, dry, affordable homes. That’s why you’re seeing us actually do everything we can to make sure that rents are not going up. You know, we’ve got stable rents in New Zealand for the first time in a long time. That’s why you’ve seen us take 6,000 people off the state house wait list. That’s how we’ve moved 2,100, you know, kids out of emergency housing into proper homes because we’ve prioritised them above others to get them into state houses and into community houses.

So we know it’s still challenging. Sorry?

No, we know we’ve got real challenges in homelessness and no New Zealander wants to see people being homeless. That’s why we spend half a billion dollars with other organisations that actually can provide the wraparound support with people who have often got very complex and challenging needs. Think about mental health issues, addiction issues that we often see in our homeless community as well.

So, you know, we’re doing everything, you know, we can and we’ll continue to do so. As you’ve seen, you know, with the homeless report that we’ve done, we’re very happy to engage and see what more we can do. But we’re putting half a billion dollars into other organisations, community organisations that can support people with complex needs. MSD is constantly available there for people who need any housing assistance. But we have made progress on getting kids out of emergency, you know, motel accommodation, making sure we get the state house wait list down, keep rents stable, and ultimately open up new land so we can get more houses built.

Oh, look, it’s not uncommon for politicians to be booed at some events, but I’d just say I was treated really well. People were very, very nice to me at that event, and they often are across the whole of the country. I don’t want that to take away from what was an absolutely fantastic game between the Mystics and the Tactix, and for the Tactix to come through and win when they hadn’t done for a long time was pretty special.

Oh, look, I disagree. I think, you know, there’s always elements that will be frustrated with Government. I get that. That goes with being a politician.

There’s a lot worse things that happen, Maiki, as well, around people’s frustration that they might verbalise at politicians at different places. I’d just say to you, in general I was treated really well and it was a great event.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. That’s what you’re seeing us talk through today, what our Government is doing. You know, we’ve come from a place where inflation was OK at 7.3 percent. Well, it’s not OK because it actually hurts low and middle-income working New Zealanders. That’s why we’ve worked incredibly hard to get it back within the band. By getting it back within the band, we get interest rate relief. By getting interest rate relief, we get the economy growing again.

Importantly, we’ve got a plan for the future, which is really those five aspects of our going for growth plan. Get a world-class education system in place so our kids can access high-paying jobs. We’ve got to do the right things for the long run to make sure that New Zealand is set up in the right way. And then it’s about what can we do around cost of living support here and now, and you’re seeing that with announcements like today where we’re saying, look, we’re going to ban surcharges across the system because we know that there’s been, you know, essentially, retailers and charging too much New Zealanders.

Look, I think you’re really overplaying it if that’s what your takeaway is. I just think as a politician—I think anyone in this place, from any of the political parties—from time to time you run into hecklers or run into people that aren’t on your side of politics. That’s quite OK. I would just hate you to misrepresent that whole event, where I was really well looked after. People were very, very kind, and that’s generally been my reaction up and down the country, by and large.

Yeah, look, I mean, I acknowledge there are things like some of those fees and charges that have been built up over a period of time under the previous administration where they were frozen, and we had to confront the reality of what we could afford and so we’ve needed to pass those costs through to—through users of those services. But I’d just say to you I think, you know, we’re working incredibly hard all the time. We’re putting together FamilyBoost. We want to expand the coverage and obviously raise the thresholds to make sure that people who are struggling with early childcare costs can get that support. You know, we’ve given people the first tax relief in 14 years. I think it’s about $3.7 billion that’s gone back into the economy because of that very action.

You’re seeing us do things, practical things, as I said, about getting rid of building costs, you know, today’s thing about services and fees and interchange rates, which has come off the back of the Commerce Commission’s ruling and also what we see actually happening out there in retail. We’re doing everything we can to get the big picture pieces right for the future and make the right decisions for the long term, to make sure the country has a really good and exciting future in terms of its growth plan going forward, and it does. But we also acknowledge that we’ve got some real challenges with costs of living for people right now.

Well, I’ll let Nicola talk to that because it’s important to understand what’s happened with the Commerce Commission ruling and then also the banning of surcharges that we’ve announced today as well.

So there’s been two changes. Last week the Commerce Commission came out with the decision to regulate the price that Visa, MasterCard and others can charge retailers for their services, and they have reduced those costs significantly. They estimate the cost saving for an average small business is around $500 a year. They have taken tens of millions out.

Our concern is: how do you make sure that is passed through to the consumer, to the shopper, and that it is not just absorbed by the retailer? So we’re taking a similar step to that taken in the UK and the EU and saying no more charges at the checkout. Just factor this in, like you do every other cost in your business: your insurance, your rent, your electricity costs. Because we don’t want people being surprised. We want pricing to be transparent, fair and easily comparable, and we are significantly reducing those costs on retailers on the way through.

Well, look, I would certainly encourage them not to do that, and I think you’d find that small businesses know it’s a pretty competitive world out there and if they do that, they might lose some shoppers. The evidence from the EU and the UK is that there’s no broad evidence that that occurred.

Look, I mean the Attorney General, as you know, is independent and issues BORA section 7 reports on a range of topics. I could think of, say, gang patches and also breath testing as being good examples where they were issued, and obviously the Government made a different decision. We’re of that view here as well, that actually, it’s not unreasonable to ask people to be enrolled 13 days before election day—as we have said before, it’s 26 days in Australia—and that gives people plenty of time, plenty of advanced education opportunities for the Electoral Commission to educate Kiwis to get out and get enrolled and participate in democracy.

No, I disagree completely. What we’re doing is saying—you know, we’ve acknowledged that we’ve got an Electoral Commission that usually would count a vote in 20 days. I’ll just say to you around the world, that’s pretty slow. Last time it blew out, or blew out from 14 days, I think, to 20 days, three weeks. And all we’re doing is making sure that—as per normal, after an election, there’s always electoral law changes that happen, and we’re doing a series here around prisoner voting, obviously about getting out and voting, being enrolled 13 days before. I think we’ve got plenty of time. If the Australians can do it in 26 days, we can do it in 13 and that will be just fine.

No, that’s not language or terms that I would use at all. Our key message is that there are a series of electoral law reforms that we’re putting through. One of them, as I said, is just to make sure that people are enrolled 13 days before the election. The other is actually saying, I’m sorry, but if you’re a prisoner, you’ve lost your right to vote, and we’ve made that change as well. And there’s a number of others. Twelve days of advance notice. You’d be aware of things like strengthening around treating, actually lifting the donation thresholds from $5,000 to $6,000 based off inflation. Those are quite reasonable things.

Yeah, look, I mean there’s no doubt about it, construction is the industry that I think has been hit the hardest through the economic challenges that we’ve experienced in the last three years. What drives construction is that interest rates, and when you have high levels of interest rates, because you need to borrow tremendously in order to be able to fund development, they get smashed around. They get very high highs and they get very low lows.

I’ve spent a lot of time with the construction industry just in the last week alone and I can tell you they understand that that—you know, they understand that’s been the frustration for them over the last three years. But they can see hope because, you know, as we’ve announced, we’ve got $6 billion worth of Government projects alone getting into ground and shovels getting into ground before Christmas. We’ve got a pipeline of Government, local government, and private activity that’s on the order of $207 billion in the pipeline.

So I do acknowledge it’s been tough but that’s thanks to Labour because when you mismanage the economy, drive up inflation, drive up interest rates, this is the reality of what has happened. And if Labour really cared about construction workers, frankly, Chris Hipkins would come out tomorrow and announce his U-turn on repealing the fast-track legislation, because the fast-track legislation is designed to get projects built quicker, faster, whether it’s houses, whether it’s schools, whether it’s roads, courthouses, a range of different projects, mining, quarrying, in order to keep those people into work. And so if he wants to come on board in a bipartisan way, I’d very much welcome that.

They are New Zealanders, and all that’s happening in the 2026 election is that they need to do it 13 days in advance of voting. Sorry, Tom, how are you?

Good.

Yeah, what I was trying to communicate was the fact that we had 20 DHBs. They were smashed together in a very botched restructure and made into a body called Health New Zealand. Essentially, those 20 DHBs continued with about 2,500 managers over the top of them, and we didn’t end up with a centralised healthcare system that could actually make sure we had clear thresholds and criteria up and down the country that were truly national. And so there is postcode lottery going on and that’s what the Minister and I have both been very alive to. What he is doing, and is just in the process of doing, is making sure, for example, for cataracts, that that is going to be a nationalised standard and threshold. And then likewise, he’s moving on to make sure that cardiology, ENT, and orthopaedics are also in that realm as well.

But it’s all about making sure we get Health New Zealand functioning as one national body where we don’t have what we’ve seen up and down this country for some time now. And so he’s doing everything he can to make sure a large organisation—I think it’s the fourth largest organisation in Australasia—is organised and is a high-performing organisation, which is what we’ve been talking about now for some time, so that it can deliver nationalised healthcare services and that people don’t experience that.

Well, as I said to you, you know, what Simeon Brown’s doing as Minister of Health is making sure that Health New Zealand ultimately functions as a national, countrywide health body, not 20 different DHBs, as it’s continued to do so despite having been created as a singular organisation. So he’s working his way through cataracts, which is—he’s quite well advanced on that. I appreciate it may not be fully 100 percent everywhere just yet, but it’s well on its way. And as I said, he’s got three other categories of medical services that he wants to see prioritised on a national basis and I think that’s the right way to come at it.

But let’s be under no illusion. You know, you take 20 DHBs, you smack them together, you chuck a whole bunch—thousands of management in over the top, and you end up with actually an organisation that is not—as I said, management-heavy, bureaucracy-laden, and still actually having practically to work as 20 different DHBs. That’s not what we want to see if we can break down the postcode lottery that we’re seeing. Sorry, Laura.

Look, that’s a decision for the Minister working with an independent Electoral Commission. Obviously, there’s a new chair there. One of the recommendations is we want to expand the board from three up to seven people on that board. And that’s a decision that they get to make.

All I’m saying is I think it was pretty self-evident last time that there were some challenges, and this is to make sure that we don’t have the stress on the system so that we can actually get through election day really well, and having really good process and procedures in place, but equally, that actually we can get the vote counted on the other side. I know that, you know, there are many other jurisdictions around the world that will use electronic voting and a whole range of things we can get to results really, really quickly. I think some of the European countries operate in that way. But for us, we will not be able to do that in time for the next election. And it’s up to the Electoral Commission to continue to improve and upgrade its processes.

The Minister does as every Minister of Justice does after every subsequent election, looks at the electoral process, over the election process, and the Electoral Commission then comes out with a series of, you know, changes with the support of the Minister, and the Minister driving some of that change as well.

I just can’t quite give you a formal date on when that was. I’m just saying we’ve surfaced it as quickly as we possibly can, and obviously brought it into legislation.

Yeah, there were aspects of it, but it’s all come together as a legislative package that’s, you know, coming into the Parliament, as you know. So, you know, I’ll have to—you’d have to ask the Minister about that.

Twenty-nine, yeah.

Yeah, look, it’s incredibly heartbreaking for all of us watching those images. I mean, we have now plumbed new depths, as I said yesterday. You are seeing catastrophic humanitarian suffering on a massive scale. And, you know, that is why you saw the statement in the House last week. That’s why you saw Minister Peters join with 29 other Foreign Ministers to say—to go further than we’ve gone before, to say, “Hey, listen”.

We need several things to happen in the Middle East. We need Hamas to release those hostages. It is absolutely cruel on those hostages, but on those families, for a conflict that they started on October the 7th with an egregious, abhorrent action that had a huge impact.

Equally, we’re saying to Israel that you have a responsibility to make sure that there is unfettered access to humanitarian assistance. And while we hold out hope for those airdrops, the reality is we need the system opened up to the UN and to other NGO organisations to be able to get in on the ground and deliver aid and assistance unfettered. And that is a basic ask. I think all of us as countries are saying, “You have to be able to do that”. There’s been some relaxation of that, as you would have seen over the weekend, I think, partly as a response to those 29 countries, of which we were one, making those claims, but it’s still not enough. It needs to be opened up completely.

And the third thing that we’re very exercised about is that we believe fundamentally that we have to be able to have Palestinians and Israelis live side by side in the Middle East to get, ultimately, peace and security and stability into the region. And for that to happen, what we cannot have is Ministers of the Israeli Government continuing illegal settlements—particularly, say, in the West Bank—or proposals that actually end up dividing Gaza and forcibly, you know, moving people around, a population. That’s not acceptable.

So, you know, it’s a pretty—you know, what we can do, sitting—and I know it’s incredibly frustrating. We sit here. We are trying to make sure our voice has more volume to it. Because yes, we are a long way away. Yes, we are a small country. We have very limited trade links, for example, with Israel or some aspects of other Middle Eastern countries as well. But by partnering with others, we are putting volume and voice to what we believe in, with other like-minded countries. You know, as you’ve heard me say before and you’ve heard Minister Peters say as well, you know, ultimately it’s an if, not when, as to when a Palestinian state is created. But for here, right now, the thing that needs to happen right now is the immediate next step, and that has to be a ceasefire, an unconditional ceasefire that puts the parties back around the table.

Because we have a Minister of Foreign Affairs and we have a Government, and foreign affairs is a domain that we take as a Government through our Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

No, not at all. No, more just acknowledging for New Zealanders that, you know, we have just gone through three years of a recession that’s probably been nothing like we’ve seen since the early 1990s. How did we get here? As I keep saying, we’ve had to come back to the immutable laws of economics. If you lose control of spending, you lose control of inflation, you lose control on interest rates, put an economy into recession, and people start losing their jobs. It’s a known economic prescription that we know how that works. And the previous Government stuffed that, they crashed that, and as a result, people are feeling that pain and suffering now. And so our job, 18 months into a new Government, is to make sure we’re doing everything we can to deliver for New Zealanders because that’s the thing that they are most fixated on and care about the most. And so we’re doing everything to get the long-run decisions right so our country has an awesome future, and it will have a great future. It does have a great future. And we’re making sure through our Going for Growth plan that we’ve really got the drivers to lift our collective living standards.

I find that very hard to believe, given it was Labour that created the cost of living crisis in the first instance by borrowing more, spending more, taxing more.

Well, I’m just telling you I’m listening to voters and I’m listening to the New Zealand people, and Nicola and I both meet with many of them over the course of any given week. And what I can tell you is that we are doing everything we can to get the long-run pieces and the long-run economic plan in place that’s going to create the growth and the opportunities that we need for our kids and our grandkids. But we’re also acknowledging right here, right now, it is difficult for New Zealanders wrestling with the cost of living, and that’s why we’re doing everything that we can, whether it’s about removing fees and surcharges that they’re paying— overpaying—across New Zealand at the moment, whether it’s about the tax relief that we’ve delivered, whether it’s about getting rid of the Auckland regional fuel tax—a whole bunch of barnacles we’re trying to get off the boat to lower daily living costs for Kiwis.

Yeah. So we are—that’s just following the legislative process that we have today. As you well know, we go through a first reading, second reading, committee of the whole, third reading, then it becomes law. If we can go any faster, we will go faster, but it’s just acknowledging that’s the standard legislative process that we have right now.

But we’ve had a Commerce Commission come out and say, “Hey, listen, there’s $90 million worth of”—essentially has climbed back on the interchange fees that, you know, the MasterCards and the Visas of this world charge merchants—and then equally saying retailers are possibly overcharging Kiwis by $65 million. And so what we’re doing is saying: look, we’re going to ban those fees and surcharges for Kiwis so they don’t see those stickers on those ATM—on the PayWave machines at the counter, and that’s the good thing.

Sorry, Bridie, you haven’t asked a question.

I’ll let Nicola talk to that.

I don’t know what measure you’re looking at, but what you have to be conscious of is that infrastructure spending is cumulative. In every Budget we’ve delivered, we’ve added more funding to the infrastructure pipeline. We are funding more infrastructure than had been budgeted for previously. We’ve ensured that additional capital is flowing into construction projects. The key is getting the money out the door, and as we illustrated last weekend, we were announcing shovels in the ground on projects that Labour announced in 2011, 2014. It’s one thing to announce money in a Budget, put out a press release; it’s another thing to make sure the project actually starts. That’s what we’re focused on.

Well, the capital commitments, I can assure you, Bridie, we are—we have increased our investment in capital infrastructure in each of our Budgets.

Well, to the question earlier, we have moved promptly. Last week, when the Commerce Commission came out with their ruling, they estimated that would cost— sorry, that would save small businesses around $90 billion a year, but they flagged up right then that some regulation may be required to ensure that benefit got passed on to shoppers. We’ve been anticipating this change. Rather than waiting around, we were ready to move. We’d already seen what had worked offshore and we’ve acted promptly to make sure that New Zealand shoppers benefit from this change.

That shouldn’t be the case because actually retailers have had a massive cost reduction with the Commerce Commission’s decisions last week. What we’re making sure is that that’s actually passed on to consumers with transparent, fair pricing.

Look, immigration has got to be in New Zealand’s best interests and, you know, it is. What we’ve made sure is that, you know, when we have shortages of doctors and nurses and teachers and engineers, that very much immigration is linked to our economic strategy. So we will always make sure immigration’s in our best interests.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

No, no. Absolutely, we are—

I took his comments to be commentary about Western Europe, where there is huge amounts of illegal immigration.

Well, I’m telling you our Government has a clear position on immigration, which is to make sure we get the people that we desperately need to drive our economic growth, which in turn will lower people’s cost of living, and I think as a Government we’re very comfortable with the settings that we’ve got.

Well, those are comments for him to answer to. What I’m focused on is making sure I advance New Zealand’s national interests, economic and security. And as I said, immigration will always be on our terms and in the interests of New Zealand, and that’s what we’ve done successfully.

Well, I think his comments are—he’s entitled as a political party leader to make comments about his observations in other countries. My job as Prime Minister of New Zealand is to say I’m focused on making sure we’ve got the right immigration settings for ourselves in order for us to actually grow our economy.

My stance is pretty clear, which is we will always have immigration that acts in New Zealand’s interests. That’s what’s important.

Can I just have a nerdy moment, Bridie? I want to go back and check those two years and I’ll give you the two examples, because I’m concerned I might have given you the wrong years so I’ll come back to you with them, for everyone.

That’s right, and I want to check it because I think I may have conflated the numbers. I don’t have them in front of me so I want to check rather than mislead.

Lloyd, I love that Hawaiian shirt by the way, I’m just going to say. But the 2018 project, for example, that was announced by Labour, was the cladding of those two hospital buildings at Middlemore—

I think he’s got the right year.

—and they were great examples where a project was announced with great fanfare and actually money was appropriated but never spent and out the door, as Nicola was trying to say. So that’s a good example, and that project’s in this list and that’ll be started before Christmas.

Sorry, can we get to you, because there’s a question up here that hasn’t been answered?

That’s a hypothetical. I’m not going to address it.

Well, let’s see what the Ombudsman says. I’ve made it really clear what my expectations are, which is that I think the Reserve Bank should comply with the Act, which sets out what public interest considerations they should bear in mind when deciding what information to release. I previously conveyed to you that I have, via my office, communicated clearly to them. When they initially consulted with us on their release, I questioned whether they were being fulsome enough in their disclosure of documents and information, and they ultimately took independent legal advice about their approach to those Official Information Act requests and proceeded down their own course. Now, this is why we have an Ombudsman, because people do interpret the Act in different ways. I will await the Ombudsman’s decision before I comment on hypotheticals.

He has the skills and experience to do the job. The Reserve Bank has been through a number of significant changes, is in the midst of appointing a new Reserve Bank Governor. At this critical juncture, I think that stability is helpful.

OK, we’ve got time for one more question. Tom Day.

Look, I mean, again, as I said before, New Zealand’s position has been it’s a—it’s not—it’s an “if, not when” sort of—it’s a “when, not if” conversation, in the sense of we believe very strongly in a two-state solution.

No, we want to focus everyone’s mind on doing what the logical next step is, and the logical next step is for those parties to get into diplomacy, into dialogue, and to get round the table and have an immediate ceasefire that stops the human suffering that we’re seeing right now. That is the immediate thing that we can do and we’re putting huge pressure on the parties, as best we can from a long way away with a country with very little influence in the region, through partnering with like-minded countries, to get exactly that focus and get exactly that outcome. That is exactly what’s needed right now.

Ultimately, yes, Palestinian statehood we will look at, but for right here, right now, the logical thing for us to do right now is to make sure that we exhort all parties to do what they can do and control what they can control, which is the decision to get into a room and actually work this out so this human suffering stops.

OK, team. Thank you very much. We need to go.

Sorry? Passports, yeah.

No, no, no, you’re misunderstanding the—what’s happening here is the Minister was asked about what’s happening with passports. In 2027 there’ll be a scheduled security upgrade, as often happens with our passports. At the same time we’ll just revert back the cover page back to the 2021 position, which is having both English and Te Reo on.

No, it’s all about a scheduled security upgrade for passports, which is infinitely— very important so that we get that job done properly. But in order not to waste resources, at the same time there’ll be design changes, I’m sure, to the passport. That’s one of them, but it sits alongside some security upgrades.

Look, no, we haven’t. I’ve seen the media reports and commentary. As you can understand, I don’t cast—pass comment on all media reports that I’m reading and/or seeing around that. Suffice to say, we’ve had good conversations with Trade Minister McClay and

Ambassador Greer as well on trade issues, and, you know, we are comfortable with where we sit right now. Of course, we want to make sure that we’re no worse off than any other country at this point in time. But we haven’t received a letter, we haven’t had further conversations in that regard.

Look, mate, I’ve got a lot on my plate and I’m not focused on leisure, I’m focused on getting this job done for New Zealanders. Last question to you because I owe it to you.

Yes, you can.

Yeah.

Absolutely. This has been something we’ve talked about as a National Party before the election as well.

Let me just step you back as to why we’ve got confidence it is working, because it is actually already working in half of our construction and roading projects already. When we came to Government, there was no record of how much was being spent on temporary traffic management and/or cones. We established that there’s about $790 million that the previous Government spent over three years on cones and temporary traffic management. The way that they did that was they had a very convoluted, very prescriptive code of practice booklet that was actually even specifying the number of centimetres between cones in too much—a lot of detail. We have asked NZTA, who are responsible for upgrading, maintenance and opening up new state highways, for example, to work with a much more prescriptive, pragmatic set of guidelines. As a result, you know, essentially we’ve been able to halve the costs of temporary traffic management and cones.

So we already have evidence from our own—at a central Government level that it’s actually working, and all we’re asking now is to say we’re going to take what’s working at central Government and get councils to adopt that at a council level. And if they fail to do so, take that same pragmatic approach, then we actually will withdraw funding for key local roads and projects, which we often fund 50-50 although the council leads the development of those roads. So, you know, we have clear evidence from our own experience in the short period of time we’ve been in Government that it’s actually working by taking a more pragmatic approach, and we want to see that everywhere. OK, team. Thank you very much. Have a great week.