Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday, 23 June 2025

There’s an old saying that if goods don’t cross borders, soldiers will. It was a French economist, Bastiat, and what he meant is that trade and investment are critical to preventing conflict. I’ll address the conflict offshore only to say that nobody is calling on New Zealand to rush to judgment on the rights and wrongs of the situation. We’re far better to keep our counsel because it costs nothing to get more information, but going off half-cocked can be very costly for a small nation.

At the heart of New Zealand’s independent foreign policy is that what we lack in might we make up for with our values. We believe in universal human rights and dignity for all, and we call for dialogue and understanding rather than escalation. Our focus must be on the safety of New Zealanders in the region, and that is why New Zealand Defence Force is deploying assets to the region in case they are needed to help.

We’re also mindful of the impacts on New Zealanders at home. With oil prices rising 25 percent in the past month, our Government’s focus on reducing the cost of living and controlling its finances will be as important, if not more important, than ever. You will have seen announcements of the stunning success of the golden visa this afternoon—189 applications in three months, versus 116 in 2½ years under the previous policy, means a potential of $845 million.

Meanwhile, I’m very pleased to announce that official—sorry, Overseas Investment Act consents are now down to 28 days to consent on average, down from 71 days last financial year. Eighty-eight percent of overseas investment consents are now issued within half the statutory time frame, so in less than 35 days. Tomorrow, Parliament will debate legislation that will bring more—bring most consents down to 15 days with a fast-tracked process.

New Zealand needs investment. We need it for higher-paying jobs, but also for more affordable futures for all of us. As we see the benefits of an IKEA, a Costco, or perhaps a third supermarket chain, we can see very clearly how foreign investment and connections to the world not only make for a more peaceful world, but also for a more affordable world. With that, I’m happy to take any questions.

Have you been given an update on the number of submissions so far to the Regulatory Standards Bill?

No, I haven’t. That would be with the Select Committee.

In regards to the comments that you have made about it costing nothing to get more information and being careful about the sort of message you put out there on international issues, the statement that has come out from Winston Peters in the last half an hour says, “Iran cannot be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. In that context, we note the United States’ decision to undertake targeted attacks aimed at degrading Iran’s nuclear capabilities. We also acknowledge the US statement to the UN Security Council that it was acting in collective self-defence, consistent with the UN Charter.” Is that not a tacit endorsement of what the US did at the weekend in terms of bombing those nuclear facilities?

Well, I think the Foreign Minister’s comments stand by themselves. Of course we note the United States’ assertion of the legality of their actions. Of course we believe, like just about every country in the world, that we cannot have a nuclear-armed Iran. That does not mean that we are rushing to form our own judgment on the rights or wrongs or legality of any action.

Do you believe that New Zealand is still sitting on the fence on this issue, or have we actually taken a position? And if we have taken a position, which side are we backing?

No, we’re not sitting on the fence, nor are we rushing to judgement. I believe the world is not sitting there waiting for New Zealand to give its position on the legality of the situation. What people do want to see is de-escalation and dialogue, and most critically for us, the safety of New Zealanders in the region. I’ve had a recent update that there are now 119 New Zealanders identified in Iran, as more and more New Zealanders identify themselves, and they should continue to do so.

New Zealand might not be rushing to know what it is that the position is. Prime Minister Luxon is heading into NATO. You can bet your bottom dollar that those at the NATO table will be very interested in what New Zealand’s position is and which side we are backing. So what is the position of the New Zealand Government about whether the actions that took place by the US in the weekend are legitimate or not?

The position of New Zealand is that we’re calm and sensible. We don’t rush to judgement. We recognise that there is no benefit to a rush to judgement. There is a benefit to having independent foreign policy, being an honest broker who waits to have all the facts before rushing to a position. Now, I think it would be very easy for the New Zealand media to want a definitive position right away. I don’t think it’s in the interests of New Zealand, or frankly New Zealanders in the region, for us to go off half-cocked.

Australia’s Foreign Minister Penny Wong came out this morning and said that Australia supports the actions that the US has taken. Why is it enough for Australia to say that they support the US’s actions but not enough for us?

Well, that’s a question for the Australian Government and Penny Wong. Our position is very clear. We acknowledge the events that have occurred. We acknowledge the major problem for Iran, for the region, and for the world, if there was to be a nuclear armed Iran, and we also acknowledge what the Americans have said. However, that is different from New Zealand rushing to judgment and forming a position without knowing all of the facts, which at this point we don’t have all of the intelligence that other countries may have.

In saying that, what do you make of the Opposition’s response to this? The Labour Party have been very against what the US have done, Te Pati Māori in a similar vein.

Well, speaking of people that don’t have all the intelligence, I’d categorise them that way.

You say you’re wanting to get all the facts together. What information are you waiting for, or what information do you not have currently that you need to, to be able to make a determination one way or the other?

Well, I think first of all we need to verify some of the claims that have been made on both sides and we also need to understand the effectiveness and the implications of what’s occurred. Needless to say, there are things that we don’t know. And I don’t think that us being in a hurry to make up our minds serves any purpose. I don’t think the world is waiting to find out what the New Zealand Government thinks, when actually we can get to a better decision if we allow ourselves the time to do so.

What are some of these claims that you’re talking about?

Well, again, I’m not going to start speculating which claims we should or shouldn’t believe.

That’s your argument to say why you’re keeping your counsel, as you say, it’s because there are claims that are yet to be verified. So what generally are you referring to there?

Well, I think it would be easy to start talking about which things we should or shouldn’t believe or which things we need to know. I actually don’t think that’s helpful. I do think that the Government will get to a position in good time. It will be a sensible position that upholds our reputation as an honest broker in the world.

Just finally, you said it was not in New Zealand’s interest to speculate early. Can you explain how doing that would negatively impact New Zealand?

Yes, certainly. We’re a country that is known for being an honest broker, for being a thoughtful citizen of the world. That’s a reputation that’s hard won by generations of New Zealanders and that we should continue to maintain. We shouldn’t blow it by rushing to conclusions, simply because some people would like a highly complex situation to be drilled down to a yes or a no.

Going back to Jason’s question, do you think the Opposition’s comments about this potentially breaching international law undermines New Zealand’s position on the world stage?

Well, I would give them the same advice that our Government is taking, and that is to be aware of the facts, to think carefully about a difficult—some would say unprecedented—situation and get to a good conclusion in good time. There is absolutely no reward for haste here. What there is a reward for is being a thoughtful and honest broker on the world stage. Sorry, I’ll just go to Jason if that’s OK.

Sticking with foreign affairs for a second, there’s a Curia poll that has just been released asking, “The Cook Islands is pursuing closer strategic ties with China, ignoring New Zealand’s wishes, and not consulting with New Zealand’s Government. Given this, should the Cooks continue to enjoy automatic access to New Zealand passports, citizenship, healthcare and education when its Government pursues a foreign policy against the wishes of the New Zealand Government?” Forty-six percent of people said no, that they shouldn’t, and 30 percent said yes. What do you make of those figures?

Sorry, could you just give me those last two numbers again?

Forty-six percent of people said they should not, and 30 percent of people said that they should.

Well, again, there’s been a long and fruitful relationship between the Cook Islands and New Zealand in free association. There’s been a bit of a bump in the road lately but that is being worked through between our Prime Minister, our Foreign Minister, and their Government. I believe in the long term, New Zealand needs the Cooks, the Cooks need New Zealand, and we’re going to get each other. It would be, I think, premature to start pulling out withdrawals of long-held and cherished rights of citizenship and entry between the two countries.

Have you got any update about that situation? Have you or any of your ministerial colleagues been talking to anybody from the Cooks about this cooperation agreement with China and New Zealand’s level of involvement?

Well, only to say that there’s ongoing conversations at an officials level, so people from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade are in continuous contact, and—when necessary—our Foreign Minister and our Prime Minister.

Can I just ask you about this letter that Tory Whanau has said that she has sent to the Prime Minister, having a bit of a crack at the fact of what she says is “unacceptable behaviour” around you targeting people that oppose the Regulatory Standards Bill? She says that it breaches the Cabinet Manual. Just curious about what your response to that is.

Sorry, Tory Whanau is accusing me of inappropriate behaviour?

Yeah, in terms—

Now I’ve heard it all. Well, there’s no such breach. If people want to go out and make completely incorrect statements, then I’m going to get a bit playful and have some fun with them.

Is it being playful and having a bit of fun with it? That is—

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I could say other things about them. I could say that their incorrect statements are deliberate and therefore they’re lying. I could say they’re incapable of understanding what they’re saying. I’m not saying that. I’m being a bit playful, saying the only reason I can think of for all these totally factually incorrect statements about the Regulatory Standards Bill is that there’s some sort of sinister syndrome out there. Sorry, can I just go to this gentleman here?

Did New Zealand have any advance warning of the US’s planned strikes on Iran?

No. I think it’s fair to say that that is something that they would keep very, very close to their chest.

So do you stand by your social media team, their comments around Dr Laking, that he is deranged, the comments that he is making, and that [Inaudible]?

No, because there’s—no, because there’s been no such comment made. The comment that has been made is that there’s some sort of curious syndrome that is causing people to say untrue things.

You used the word “derangement”.

Yes. There’s a syndrome, but that doesn’t mean that the person’s deranged.

So you stand by that comment?

Yes, but not the way you understand it. Yes, Tom.

Just back on Iran, David, we know that the ANZDF C-130 plane took off today. Can you provide any updates regarding its timings or any kind of updated plans on what the Foreign Minister and Defence Minister said yesterday?

No, I have nothing further to add. The plane will make its way there. It will travel with a crew, a total of 81 people. That may sound like a lot but that’s a requirement because you effectively need two crews so they can sleep half the time. They’ll be located in the region—obviously we’re not going to talk too much about that—and they’ll be available to advance New Zealand’s interests, particularly around assisting New Zealand citizens and the citizens of our friends around the world if needed.

Are there any kind of numbers that you’re able to provide in terms of, I guess, hopes of—you know, numerical value of being able to get Kiwis out of the region?

Well, as I said earlier, there’s 119 New Zealanders currently registered within Iran, 117 within Israel. That’s actually gone up since this morning. As the situation worsens, people are registering with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which we encourage people to do. But obviously people will have their own circumstances. A person that has stayed there for this long may have compelling reasons for them to stay. We don’t judge that, but we’re here to assist them because that is the Kiwi spirit. Sorry, Julia.

Minister, NZ First is drafting legislation that would require the Government to only agree to one single commercial settlement with Ngāpuhi. Would Act support that bill?

Well, we’d have to see it first. I mean, needless to say, Ngāpuhi is the most complex settlement that the Government will enter into. I’m sure you and I both know that. If they’ve got an idea, I think all ideas should be welcome at the table, because a settlement with Ngāpuhi would be good for the people of that iwi but also very good for the Northland region and ultimately good for New Zealand, because there are so many young people in that region who are so important to New Zealand’s future. However, without seeing their proposal, it would be a bit early to judge.

Do you see any benefit in allowing Ngāpuhi to have multiple groupings and settlements if that’s what they want, allowing them that space to have that rather than using legislation to dictate it?

Well, there’s lots of possibilities, isn’t there? You’ve got some quite disparate groups. Some even say that Ngāpuhi as an iwi, really, is an invention from outside the rohe, and that in reality there are many hapū rather than one iwi, and then there are people who say Ngāpuhi really is one iwi. There’s a lot of controversy there. And it’s possible that you could have one settlement that’s overarching, perhaps for commercial redress, and another one for cultural redress at different areas. But those are things that our Minister for Treaty Settlements, Paul Goldsmith, is working through.

Is this the first time you’re hearing of it, or has Act and NZ First had discussions about this type of thing prior to today?

On that—on that Member’s—well, I’ve had extensive discussions about the topic with people like Shane Jones over the years, but in terms of that Bill, that’s the first I’ve heard of it.

Do you think that you will actually see a settlement for Ngāpuhi in your lifetime? Because it feels like every time it gets a little bit close, something pops up that sort of puts it back a few steps again. How confident are you that there will actually be a settlement in your lifetime?

Well, are you taking wagers on the settlement or my life expectancy, is the first question. Look, I certainly hope to on both counts.

Deputy Prime Minister, the KidsCan report says there’s been a 15 percent increase in demand for food in schools. Is the Government doing enough to help tamariki?

There’s no question that we face incredibly tough economic times and that is showing up with demand for food banks and food in schools. However, I also just point out that, you know, we have got on top of inflation. We are getting on top of rent, which is one of the major drivers of costs in poorer households. We are relentless in managing our own finances so that there’s more to go around. So, yes, it is a difficult time. I fear that these global events may add further pressure. If you see the price of petrol going up, that puts pressure on households. However, I think we can point to a large number of initiatives the Government is taking in order to ease that burden. Which, by the way, the cost of living is now in its fourth year as an issue. It was the end of 2022 that we first started talking about a cost of living crisis.

It is still going but I believe the Government can point to significant progress: killing inflation, getting rents to stop going up and even down in some places, giving tax relief and managing our own spending.

That report would suggest that 157,000 children are going in material hardship. Have the Government’s efforts reached the children who need help the most?

Well, you’ve got to remember we’re delivering healthy school lunches for almost a quarter of a million every school day. We’ve just increased—through KidsCan, interestingly—10,000 meals for preschoolers that have actually been funded with savings by making the healthy school lunch programme more efficient. So there are initiatives we can point to which I think we can say we’ve made a difference there, but I acknowledge that there is a tough economic time out there and that’s why the Government must batten down its own hatches.

Your comments about smokers up in the UK, were they in poor taste?

No, because they’re true and the fact is if you smoke cigarettes, you pay a lot of tax and you get less superannuation. People now believe that we should be guided by taste rather than truth. We’re not going to have much good debate in this world.

But a lot of New Zealanders, they have pretty grisly deaths from smoking-related diseases, and here you’ve got the Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand calling them fiscal heroes.

Well, one of the consequences of people smoking is that they leave more money in the Government’s coffers. Now, it’s a pretty grisly choice, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have people who are prepared to put the facts out there. If I’m seriously being castigated for sharing the facts, then I think the people castigating me can’t be that serious about the issue.

Do you stand by that comment that the smoke-free generation plans were a bit evil?

No. I’ve been asked about that and I’ve said on reflection that wasn’t the right word for it, but it was a poor policy and that’s why our Government’s reversed it.

David Seymour, Labour’s Duncan Webb has said that Labour will repeal the Regulatory Standards Bill within the first 100 days of them taking office. Discuss.

Well, first of all, it would require the Labour Party to have a majority in Parliament and after the behaviour I saw from Duncan Webb just last week, I’m not sure that the New Zealand people are going to be up for that for quite some time. In fact, if you were to go to a Jo Moir-style question, I’m not sure that will happen within his lifetime.

Israel is starting limited flights in and out of its international airport. Are we expecting any New Zealanders to be on those flights? Have you been briefed on that at all?

Look, I’m sorry, I haven’t been briefed on those flights. But as always, our advice to New Zealanders is to register with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and if you want to get out—you should, it would be safer to get out—then they will be there to assist you.

Deputy Prime Minister, is New Zealand comfortable with calling out the United States if necessary?

Well, that of course is a hypothetical. We have independent foreign policy and we’ve been well known for speaking our mind, but the power of us speaking our mind is bolstered by us doing so cautiously and it’s caution that the Foreign Minister, the Prime Minister and I are advocating on this particular matter.

Do you know when or what day the Herc is meant to reach its destination?

Look, I don’t have exact operational information, only that it’ll be going to a location that we’re not keen to disclose. And as for the timing, that will be based on the operations of the NZDF.

On Ngāpuhi, you’ve talked about the differing views around whether Ngāpuhi is an iwi or that’s a construct from outside and actually it’s a collection of iwi. Which stance do you align with?

Personally, I believe that our hapū is the core. I think of myself as being part of Ngāti Rēhia and Ngāpuhi being secondary to that. But that’s just a personal thing. That doesn’t have any importance for anyone else. They’re equally entitled to their view.

Would that then flow into Act’s policy as far as supporting or not supporting one single settlement?

No, because I think it’s critical in any Government, but especially in New Zealand, that you don’t allow your personal interests to cloud your judgement about what’s best for the people you represent. So no, that wouldn’t affect—I mean, I’m happy to answer the question, but it doesn’t affect how I think about the policy.

Prime Minister, leaving aside the question of whether New Zealand supports it or not, would it be a good thing for the world if the United States has effectively disabled Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme?

Well, the one thing everyone agrees on, except perhaps the Irani Government, is that a nuclear-armed Iran is bad for Iran, it’s bad for the region, it’s bad for the world, and that is a positive thing if they no longer have a nuclear weapons programme. However, it’s also true that we now need to step back from the brink, de-escalate, use dialogue and ensure peace because we want to see people treated with dignity. We want to see people safe, particularly New Zealand citizens in the region. We do not want to see an escalation that is going to hurt more people and push up prices, and harm people not only over there but here at home economically.

Have you received any advice on the potential economic impacts of any retaliation that might come out of this, you know, the blocking of the Hormuz Strait or anything like that? Oil prices?

No, not beyond the obvious that constraining the supply of oil and constraining trade is bad for New Zealanders. But it’s far too early to have specifics or numbers around something like that, I would have thought.

Just going back to your comments before about Labour getting back into Government, what was your reaction to the Ipsos survey last week that came out that had Labour having overtaken National as the party best placed to handle inflation and cost of living?

Well, as far as I’m concerned, people are voting on the economy right now and it is tough for people. However, they’ll also be voting on the economy next year and I believe that the policies our Government has put in place—carefully managing our own spending, getting rid of red tape in regulation—are leading to an economic recovery. I hear it and I feel it out on the ground when I talk to people. Just yesterday I was talking to a guy who works for a locksmith company and he said, “Look, commercial clients that put stuff off are starting to put it back online”. I hear stories like that everywhere and I believe that as that recovery happens, people will keep voting on the economy, and that will be very good for the Government that’s done a lot of hard work to turn this economy around after the hospital pass we copped in the bread basket from Labour.

What do you put it down to at the moment, then? Because if you think about the rhetoric and the economic growth ad nauseum, and the constant chatter and narrative from particularly Christopher Luxon and Nicola Willis around getting the country back on track and economic growth and bringing inflation down, why hasn’t that translated and why are voters saying, “Well, actually we’re hearing all of that but we think Labour would do a better job”?

I think people are driven by their everyday experience, and I accept and I agree people are having a tough time in a lot of households and a lot of businesses I visit. But two things about that. One is the policies that we’re putting in place, I believe, are turning that around. You’ve seen all of that inflation get digested. Now the interest rates are coming down. People have got more cash in their pocket as their mortgage rates come off. That means businesses can afford to hire more people, and as that happens, you start to meet more people like the locksmith I mentioned yesterday who say jobs that used to be getting put off are now back on. That takes some time, and so long as that personal experience is what’s driving people’s sentiment, I’m not surprised. And of course, you know, everyone, not just Chris and Nicola but everyone right across our Government, is talking about the initiatives we’re taking to drive the turnaround.

That survey was taken in the days after the Budget, so what does that say about what people think the Budget’s cost-of-living policies can do for them?

Well, first of all, a lot of the Budget’s policies come into effect on 1 July, so if we believe that people are driven by their experience, sentiment on the ground, then I wouldn’t expect the mere announcement of something to make that difference. Alright, folks, well look, this has been a slice, really enjoyed talking to you all, and hopefully we’ll be able to do this lots more times. See you later.