Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday, 4 November 2024

I hope you all had very good weekends. I was very pleased to attend the Sika Show down in Hamilton on Saturday alongside Todd McClay, who was there in his capacity as Minister for Hunting and Fishing. What was very impressive was he had arrived that morning from the GCC having completed the trade deal, was there on Saturday and then on yesterday morning flew out to China, so he’s been working incredibly hard.

But I did actually just want to touch briefly on what Todd has achieved in his capacity as Trade Minister because last week, after 18 years, Todd McClay officially concluded trade negotiations with the Gulf Cooperation Council on behalf of the New Zealand Government, having reopened them—those negotiations, actually—just in February this year. And as a market, the six-nation GCC block is the ninth-largest economy in the world. The trade deal is the highest-quality deal the GCC has done to date and its first with a major agriculture exporter. It delivers duty-free access for 99 percent of New Zealand’s exports over 10 years, and when combined with our recently concluded UAE agreement, 51 percent of our exports to the region will be tariff-free from day one. New Zealand‒GCC trade is worth about $3 billion annually, with New Zealand exporting $2.6 billion in the year to June 2024. We expect this to grow quickly, and as with any trade deal, once in place, barriers are removed and trade instantly increases by the very fact that exporters are confident in their market access.

Diversifying our export markets is all part of our plan to grow Kiwi opportunities and to boost the economy. Successfully concluding a trade agreement with the GCC has been a longstanding ambition for successive Governments for almost two decades, and I’m incredibly proud and excited that we’ve been able to seal the deal and move it on. It is a major achievement and testament to how hard our Government, and particularly our Trade Minister Todd McClay, has been hustling to secure and boost trade opportunities for our Kiwi exporters.

As you know, the state of our economy, the cost of living and the growth of incomes and opportunities relies on a range of factors, and growing New Zealand’s trade relationships is obviously one of them. We also need to spend responsibly, cut red tape and restore confidence to the business section so that we get the low-inflation environment needed for official cash rate reductions and ultimately lower our mortgage repayments for Kiwis. I know that for many this relief can’t come soon enough, and I look forward to more household budgets easing in the coming months as mortgage rates continue to drop and mortgage holders roll over to a lower rate.

In the short term, I’m very proud to lead the first Government in 14 years to have delivered tax relief for hard-working people, and know how sorely this is needed for many as we approach the holiday season. Family Boost claims have now been open for a month and I’m pleased that relief of up to $75 per week is landing in eligible families’ bank accounts, allowing them more choices for what they do with their money. Around 100,000 households are estimated to be eligible, with 33,000 families receiving their first payment so far, and we expect that number to continue to rise, and we also just encourage all eligible parents and caregivers to register and to make the claim.

Another issue many Kiwis are drawing their attention to at this time of the year is education, and many parents are planning for new uniforms or stationery and doing what they can to prepare their kids for a new class and a new year level, or a new school even. High school students are swotting up on NCEA exams, including level 2 maths, which will be sat tomorrow morning, and I just want to formally wish all those students the very, very best for the next few weeks. Education is a priority for this Government and also for me, and it’s not just because the future of our economy relies on today’s kids turning up to school and getting the skills that they need to succeed, but because I believe that young people should have more opportunities to get ahead through education than the generations that went before them, and I don’t believe this has been the case in recent years.

The level of achievement in New Zealand is not acceptable to my Government and you will have already heard us about several of our changes to turn these results around: all primary and intermediate schools teaching an average of an hour each of maths, reading and writing; cellphones having been banned in classrooms to remove distractions and get our kids focused back on learning; structured literacy introduced to change the way that children learn to read and, from next year, consistent student assessment so that parents know how their child is doing at school; a stepped-up approach to attendance because a child cannot learn if they are not even in school. And these changes are all part of our very ambitious plans and targets to deliver 80 percent of students being present at school for 90 percent of the term, and 80 percent of Year 8 students at or above the expected curriculum level for their age in reading, writing and maths by December 2030.

I, like all New Zealanders, was quite shocked by data earlier this year showing that only four out of five of our Year 8 students are not at the expected curriculum on maths and where they need to be, and of that, around three out of five of our students are more than a year behind. Our Government immediately developed a Make It Count maths action plan, led by Minister Erica Stanford, to transform maths education, including a new curriculum with resources to support teachers, $20 million for professional development and structured maths for teachers, strengthened requirements for teachers to gain NCEA level 2 in maths, and then bolstered assessment and small group interventions for students who fall behind. Today we’re announcing a few more steps to lift student achievement in mathematics, and I’ll now hand over to Erica to take you through that in a little bit more detail.

OK. Thank you, Prime Minister. As you know, at the beginning of August we announced our Make It Count maths action plan to transform maths education and raise achievement in New Zealand. Our work programme is one that is defined by pace, by clarity and outcomes, and we are delivering.

Last week, the Ministry of Education released the new mathematics, statistics and pāngarau curricula for Years 0 to 8, ready for schools to use from Term 1, a whole year earlier than planned. Like our structured literacy approach, the maths curriculum is a knowledge-rich—is knowledge-rich. It sets out a structured, evidence-based, informed approach to the curricula, based on the science of learning and similar to the best from around the OECD. This will help teachers deliver lessons that cover what students learn and when they need to learn it.

To support teachers with this approach, the Government invested $30 million into high-quality, curriculum-aligned workbooks, teacher guides, lesson plans, resources, all completely free of charge, and over the last two weeks, schools around the country have been placing their orders. And I was delighted to be informed this morning at 8.30 am that 1,406 out of the 2,203 eligible schools have placed an order, and this will provide resources to benefit 308,495 students from Term 1 next year. Those students will have a maths workbook in their hands. Parents can walk into the classroom, open it up and see where they’re up to.

And today I can announce that we are continuing to supercharge our plan by introducing a targeted maths acceleration programme to students who most need help to catch up to where they need to be. In Term 1 and 2 next year, around 2,000 7 and 8 students who have fallen far behind in maths will take part in an intensive support programme to bring them up to the required curriculum level. This is a trial that will use small group tutoring and supervised online tuition for 30 minutes, up to four times a week, for each child. It is intensive. Intermediate age children have been specifically chosen for this as they have the least time to benefit from our world-leading curriculum, all of this resourcing and professional learning and development before starting high school.

The trial will be held in schools and kura across the country, teaching maths using the New Zealand curriculum and teaching pāngarau using Te Marautanga o Aotearoa. It’ll run for 12 weeks and it’ll cost around about $2 million. Schools will be targeted in the coming weeks based on available student achievement data. The Ministry will ensure a representative of schools are selected from equity, size, geographical location. It is my intention that the findings from this initial trial will inform decisions about scaling up across the country from Term 3 next year.

We have an unrelenting focus on lifting student achievement and closing the equity gap in our education system so that all children are equipped with what they need to succeed. I really want to, at this point, thank all of those teachers and principals from around the country who have raised this gap in the education system with me. Your advice and your suggestions have led to this intervention. Feedback from the sector is critical and will continue to be used as we develop our world-leading education system.

And finally, can I just echo the Prime Minister’s well wishes to those who are sitting NCEA exams from tomorrow, including my own daughter, Holly, who has level 2 biology and is at home studying, I hope. These exams are the culmination of a lot of hard work from our young people and from their teachers and principals, and I wish all of those students taking part tomorrow and in the coming weeks all the very best. Back to you, Prime Minister.

Well, thank you, Erica. In the interests of time, let’s get straight into any questions you may have.

Prime Minister, just looping back to trade, have you had any briefings or advice as to the potential impacts for New Zealand of a change of presidency in the United States, and are you formulating or is Mr McClay formulating any strategies to counter or lobby against a blanket increase in tariffs by the United States?

Look, I’m not going to discuss or pre-empt any outcome. What I am going to say is that I will be able to work with whoever the American people select as their president.

It was a specific question was about trade, which you started the press conference with. Would you be concerned if there was a blanket increase in tariffs from the United States?

Again, I’m just not going to speculate on a presidential outcome, given the vote hasn’t taken place.

I’m not asking you to speculate on the outcome—

Well, it is a speculation.

—I’m asking you to speculate on what would happen if there was an increase in tariffs from the United States.

Yeah, yeah, just not going to speculate on it. Sorry, Jamie?

Have you done any preparation in case that happens, in case Donald Trump is elected and he provides blanket tariffs?

Well, look, I mean, to be honest, what we’re focused on is making sure that we are well positioned, as I’ve said before, with relationships on both the Democrat and the Republican side in the Senate and the Congress, and that we can actually work with whichever administration comes through. I appreciate there’s lots of policies being proposed by both candidates but until there is actually a decision being made, my commitment is that we will work very positively with whoever the American people choose.

Assuming that, as is a tradition of New Zealand Prime Ministers, you do end up going to APEC, will you be seeking to have a meeting with whomever wins the US election, as it’ll be done and dusted by then?

It’ll depend upon who’s attending. As you know, sometimes the outgoing President will attend, and again, that’s still to be worked through.

And if it were to be the new President, what would be your message in a sort of advocacy perspective for New Zealand in that situation?

Well, it’s just been the same message that I’ve got, which is that, you know, New Zealand’s a country that really is a small trading nation. It relies on the international rules-based system. We respect the freedom of navigation, sovereignty of nation states, all of that good stuff, and we want to be a good partner with the US and work with like-minded countries across the world on the agendas that we’re interested in.

As you know, you know, we’re doing—we’ve got a big effort around trade. You’ve seen us already, since May last year—May this year, you know, close out the UAE deal. The previous GCC deal I’ve just referenced has been sitting around under successive Governments for 18 years. It was shut down. It was reopened by Todd McClay in February and we’ve closed it out over the weekend. So we’ve got a lot more ambition, as you know, to drive more growth, more trade into, and to double the value of our exports across South-east Asia, North-east Asia, into India, China, and throughout the Indo-Pacific region.

Would your ambition be a continuation of New Zealand’s policy of pursuing a free trade agreement with the United States?

Well, again, you know, I think you’ve seen on both sides of the aisle there is no domestic political appetite for that at this time. So I don’t foresee that changing, based on what has been longstanding positions of both the Democrats and Republicans in recent years. But what I would just say to you is that our actual growth of exports to the US has actually grown significantly, double digits in recent—in the last year and that’s been a positive thing. Thomas?

Prime Minister, you love US politics. Who’s your pick?

I’m not getting into any of that, as I said. My job is to act in New Zealand’s national interests and to make sure that we are well positioned with a system that’s very broad and very deep, to be able to do the business and to build a deeper relationship with whoever wins through.

On the education announcement, who provides the intensive training, maths training, and how exactly does it work? Because online learning for children, at first read, might not be considered intensive.

No, there are going to be three things that we do that we’re trialling. There’s going to be a hybrid of in-person and using a platform as well. We will also have small group interventions that don’t have the online, just to see which one works better. We want to see what kind of combination of a range of things work best. We are going to be contracting providers to come in and provide this intensive support with small groups of up to four young people at a time, and we’ll make sure that those people are versed in the new curriculum, in explicit teaching and in the science of learning.

On the resourcing and the orders that have been made, that’s for what, various sort of third-party material that’s been produced? How does it align with the curriculum though, when the curriculum is still in a draft state?

The curriculum was released last week on Thursday, on Tāhurangi.

You can go and have a look. It’s amazing and it’s had really great feedback. When we contracted providers, one of the things that we said was, “You need to be able to align to the new curriculum and you need to have it printed and delivered in January so we can get it out to schools”. Interestingly, most of those providers said, “Actually, most of our materials are already aligned to what the new curriculum is, because that’s what the rest of the world are doing”.

Prime Minister, in the election campaign when you promised those 13 extra cancer drugs, Shane Reti also said that blood cancer patients would not be forgotten but you didn’t have the Cancer Control Agency report to back it up yet. That report was released just over a week ago now, and it said there were nine unfunded drugs in New Zealand that are funded in Australia that would have substantial clinical benefit. Will you fund those nine drugs for the blood cancer patients that you said would not be forgotten?

Well, look, again, I haven’t been briefed on that specifically. Our focus, as you know, has been to make sure that we can get out 26 new cancer treatments, 28 other new medicines. That rollout is happening, as you saw even just on the 1st of October, a whole bunch more drugs came out to support New Zealanders doing it really tough, following the first release that we had on the 1st of September. So our focus right now is to get the cancer and the new medicines that we talked about and we’ve announced out into the public domain and being well executed, so that they’re available and there’s access to those drugs. Beyond that I haven’t had any further conversations. You’ll have to direct that to Shane Reti.

If it required more money, would you be willing to put more money in to fund those new drugs?

Well as I said, you know, we have put—we’ve got a healthcare system that spends almost $30 billion. We’ve put another $17 billion into it over the last—the next three years, the most of any Government in the history of New Zealand. We’ve put $2 billion to fix up Pharmac, put $604 million in to deal with 56 new cancer treatments—cancer and new medicines. And so our job is to make sure that they are available and getting out there very quickly.

The reason that you got to 13 was the old Cancer Control Agency report, but that only focused on tumour cancers and you said you’d match it for the blood cancers. So I’m just wondering for the patients whether you’ll honour that promise.

Yeah, again, as I said before, I haven’t been briefed on it. Feel free to raise it with Shane Reti.

There are 36 drugs for blood cancer that are funded in Australia that aren’t funded in New Zealand, and I appreciate Australia is obviously a bigger country—

And a wealthier country.

—but would those patients in New Zealand feel like they’re not being prioritised and be looking across the ditch thinking, “How come it’s there and not here?”

Yeah. Well, look, I know it’s incredibly difficult but, you know, what we have done as a Government coming in is spend more on healthcare than anyone else who has gone before us. We’ve actually come and delivered 26 new cancer treatments, 28 other new medicines that are having benefit for New Zealanders. That is a big commitment from our Government. We are making sure that we can deliver that well and get that access out.

Of course we would like to be able to do more, but for us to do more we actually have to build a bigger economic engine to get the public services and when you are—you know, that we often see in wealthier countries that we’d love to have here, and that is the reality of it. You know, at the moment you have Australia, New South Wales, it’s 30 to 35 percent wealthier on a per capita basis than New Zealand. And so that is why we are working hard to build out a bigger economy, so that we can get better and higher-quality public services available to our people. We’ve got to do that, build the economy and do what we can to get as much money through the system, but importantly get the money through the system to deliver those drugs to get those improved outcomes that we’re wanting to see.

Do you think that ultimately comes down to priorities as well though for Government, and do you think that patients will think that money is being prioritised for health and for things like cancer drugs?

I can tell you in my conversations with many New Zealanders, they are incredibly grateful to our Government for stepping up with $604 million and 26 new cancer drugs and 28 other new medicines that previously didn’t exist. They’re incredibly grateful for a Government that’s actually put $17 billion extra into health over the next three years for our Budget 2024. And, you know, they can see that we are putting the money into the system.

Now what we have to do is make sure that we actually deliver on the targets that actually improve the outcomes for patients. We have to make sure that we have a quality Health New Zealand organisation and as that money comes through, it actually gets out to the people that desperately need it—and that we continue to build and grow and develop our workforce, where we know we’ve got some real challenges. And so, you know, you’re seeing we’ve got great nurses, we’ve got great doctors, but we’ve got to build a better system and that’s really what our focus is.

Prime Minister, do you think that it’s acceptable that babies as young as three were left in houses on their own without adult supervision when the police raided the gang houses in Ōpōtiki, and extended family members were not able to get access to those children for several hours?

Well, what I think is utterly unacceptable is the pain and suffering that gang members wrought on New Zealanders, and I think what’s utterly unacceptable is that they want to take all the rights of being a Kiwi and all the freedoms that come with that, but they’re not prepared to take the responsibilities and the duties that they have to each other and to the country. So we make no apologies for being tough on gangs.

It’s acceptable that the police would allow children to be unaccompanied in those households, witness their grandmothers and their mothers being taken away in handcuffs and their extended family not being able to have access to them?

Well, what I’d say is what is unacceptable is what the behaviour from gang members are, and we’re going to be very tough on that. Sorry guys, let’s go—hang on, we’ll go down to Mark.

Are the children in that scenario responsible for whatever their parents and grandparents have done?

No, clearly that’s—that’s not what we want to see happen, and that would be great if the children could be better looked after. But actually the reality is we are going to be tough on gangs and I make no apologies for that. We are going to harass gangs, we’re going to make their life very difficult and we’re sending a message very strongly that that is not an option for you, that is not a good pathway for you to live a great life. And gang members can’t take the rights and not have the responsibilities, and that’s going to stop.

But the question is very specific.

We’re talking about the children. A three-year-old baby was unable to be picked up by an extended family member for several hours, in a household where they witnessed their grandmother and mother being taken away.

And that’s really, really tragic and I—and I—

Do you think that action was acceptable by the police?

—and I just said to you before that’s not acceptable. I get that, but equally what’s not acceptable—yep, but what’s also not acceptable—I’ve said that. But what is also not acceptable—I want you to be really clear about this—is the gang behaviour is utterly unacceptable. And that is, you know, we have one-quarter of 1 percent of our population in gangs, driving almost 20 percent of our violent crime in this country. That is unacceptable. We said we would come down on violent crime and that is why we’re being tough on gangs.

Patches, assorting, consorting, aggravating factors, illegal guns, that’s what we’re going after and that’s what the police will have new powers to deal with from the end of the month.

I understand that, Prime Minister, but is a three-year-old child—

I fully agree.

—responsible for that violence, for those weapons? Is a three-year-old responsible?

Incredibly challenging, really unacceptable, get it. Got it. But also what’s unacceptable, on the other side of the equation, is the behaviour of gang members.

Have you asked any questions about whether that is the case, whether a three-year-old was left in a house by themselves?

I have seen some reports, as has just been asked of me, but I haven’t seen formal confirmation of that.

Is that something that you might follow up on with the police?

It might well be, yes.

Prime Minister, are you going to ensure that a situation like that never happens again in the future? If you do like a raid or something like that, will you ensure that never happens again?

Well, the police will take operational decisions and they will make sure that they’re doing the best that they possibly can. But let’s be clear: we are going after gang members, period. And when you’ve seen the Comancheros taken down in the way that they have been, when you’ve seen the Mongrel Mob being taken down the way that they have been in Ōpōtiki—and we’re going to have a lot more of it—that is a good thing for New Zealand because we want violent crime going down. And as I said, we’ve passed a whole bunch of laws to give the police more operational powers and protection and backup in order to get the job done.

Prime Minister, why do you think people are going to switch from cigarettes to heated tobacco products?

Well, we really want to be able to make sure that we’re giving people as many options as possible to get away from cigarette smoking. You know, what you’ve seen in New Zealand is a tremendous success over many decades now. We have some of the lowest daily smoking rates of developed countries on Earth. We’ve got a lot more—we’ve got a bit more to do as we go from 6.8 percent down to the 5 percent smokefree target. That will be increasingly harder and tougher as we work towards it, but providing alternatives for people is a good thing.

A top official with the Ministry of Health looked at the independent advice that Casey Costello put forward to justify that tax break for heated tobacco products. They said it was selective, it was outdated, and they said most of her advice was crap. Do you think the quality of the information she is bringing to Cabinet is up to scratch?

Yeah, I can tell you that Minister is very, very focused on making sure she lowers daily smoking rates and delivers on Smokefree 2025. But what I’d also reject is your characterisation of a tax break. What we are saying is if we move people from cigarettes into alternatives—and particularly in this case heated tobacco products—that actually we will collect less excise tax as a Government because they won’t be on cigarettes, they’ll be on heated tobacco products, because we’re halving the excise tax to see how that goes, to see whether that encourages any transition from cigarette smoking into alternatives.

And so that is a provision, a financial accounting provision that’s put aside to make sure that if we get the full result—which is people coming off cigarettes into an alternative that’s better than cigarettes—then that would be the money that we’d need to put aside. That is an accounting provision rather than an actual hard dollar.

Officials at the Ministry of Health, when they’re talking about this evidence that Casey Costello had, they’re putting ‘evidence’ inside inverted commas. I mean, they seem to think their Minister’s behaviour is a bit farcical.

Well, I’ll just put it to you that I have conversations with the Minister. I have through the course of the year. You’ve seen a Ministry of Health, frankly, that I think has not been straight up about conflicts of different officials that have been in that Minister’s department, and they needed to have been.

Prime Minister, what value do taxpayers get for Winston Peters being at the Melbourne Cup?

Well, actually he’s over there meeting with Foreign Ministers, so the Foreign Minister of Australia and the Foreign Minister of India, Dr Jaishankar and also Penny Wong, and that’s his primary reason for being in Australia. He’s also the Minister of Racing, so it’s convenient that those two things have come together.

What came first, the invitation for him to meet with the Minister?

His focus is on meeting with the Foreign Ministers.

But what invitation came first, was it the invitation to the racing and the other thing was added on, or was it vice versa?

No disrespect, but when Dr Jaishankar comes to Australia and it’s an opportunity to meet with one of the most influential Foreign Ministers in the world, it’s a great opportunity for him to do so, and to be able to jump across the ditch and do so is a great thing.

If he backs a winner, does the taxpayer get a cut?

Prime Minister, who will be taking care of the tauira Māori and kura Māori maths programmes?

We are—as you know, I think I mentioned in the past—making sure that professional learning and development is going to be provided to all rumaki units and kura kaupapa as well. We’re also—for the first time, I think, as far as I can tell—making sure that we are providing those maths resources in te reo Māori as well, freely available. And again, all of that provision is being specifically tailored to bilingual and Māori immersion units.

Erica, just on the state care and abuse apology next week, can you just outline the sort of parameters of what the update will be from the Government next week for survivors?

Look, firstly, can I just acknowledge the survivors who have spent the last—well, certainly six years but probably longer, many decades—fighting for justice. They are extraordinarily brave. And next week, Tuesday, is going to be a significant milestone where the Prime Minister will make that apology and outline a number of meaningful actions that address those recommendations in the report, and some meaningful actions that are underway at the moment.

There are many major decisions that we have yet to make on redress. They are extraordinarily complex. And we will not be in a position on the day to be able to say what the outcome of those decisions are because we have a number of Cabinet decisions yet to come. The Prime Minister will make an update on the day but I still can’t go into that because it’s still—some of those things are still going through the Cabinet process.

And you’re talking specifically about compensation, for example? There will be no information or update or figure or anything put on that?

We’re not in a position to be able to give those really complex decisions about what the end state of redress will look like.

So will it be very high-level, I guess, any update on top of the apology?

We have—as I say, there are some things that are still just traveling through Cabinet so I can’t say specifically what they will be yet because I’ll get ahead of Cabinet decisions, but there will be an update on the day.

Sorry, Jamie.

Prime Minister, can you guarantee that none of your Government’s policies will put children in harm’s way like we’ve previously seen and which the Royal Commission investigated?

Yeah, well, that’s what we really need to—I mean what’s happening is that, you know, first and foremost, we need to acknowledge the pain and suffering that was caused, and that was the tabling of the report here in Parliament. Next Tuesday will be a very, you know, big and important day because that’s the formal apology to the victims of abuse in state care. And then after that comes redress, as we work through 138 recommendations—actually over 220 recommendations with the interim report there as well—and our responsibility is to make sure we give that due consideration.

It was 3,000 pages, it was six years of work, and it’s important for us to actually do two parts of that. One is obviously the system response and to make sure that all of our Government agencies are working incredibly hard to improve and to take on board those recommendations incredibly seriously, to make sure that it doesn’t happen again. And that’s why I want to see each of those agencies doing what they need to be doing to strengthen their operating processes, their practices, to make sure that it can’t happen again.

So you’re confident that none of your Government policies, such as the military-style academies, will put children at risk of harm?

Well, I’d just say to you, the way that that has been represented, I think, is really unfair. Having gone and spent several hours with those young men that were in that military academy—I spent, you know, a morning there, two or three hours with them—I can tell you that has been a completely—you know, that has been a fantastic experience and a powerful intervention. When you have three psychiatrists and psychologists working with those young people, when you have social workers in there working on their trauma, working on their issues, but also you have retired police officers who are working with them on a whole bunch of different skills, it’s been really—it was really inspiring, frankly, to see this powerful intervention being made in these young people’s lives. And now we’ve got to follow it up as they come out of residential and they head back home for nine months with dedicated one-on-one support, so with a social worker attached to them.

So, you know, I’d just say to you they are very different things. And I appreciate how it’s wanted to be represented in the media, but what we’re doing with our young serious offender military style academies is very, very different from what the accounts are. If you read the accounts of some of the horrific programs that were run in the 70s in particular, I’m thinking of, that were incredibly—that is not what we’re doing here. What we are doing here is making powerful, targeted interventions in some of our young people that are at risk of a life that is not going to serve them well for the next 20 to 30 years. So let’s do good social investment, make the powerful investments now, and it is costing us a lot of money but it’s important because we want to change the course of where those lives are going to head to and where they’re going to go to by doing something like that.

You’re about to introduce legislation to make those military-style academies permanent or a sentencing option for youth serious offenders.

Yeah, as a categorisation available to a judge, yes.

Are you confident that there’s no powers being provided to personnel at those academies that will put children in harm’s way?

I can tell you like the amount of work that’s gone into the oversight, the amount of avenues that are available to those young people to raise any concerns. The actual care, love and support that they’re getting is pretty phenomenal, and when you actually can see the difference it’s making in those young people’s lives, it was pretty inspiring. So I have to say, I came away—having seen it up close, having spent time with those young men in particular and actually got a sense of what they were doing, they were feeling for the first time in many cases that someone cared about them, someone loved them and someone was investing in them, and actually thought they had a future. And I could see that starting to build in them through that programme and the way that it’s been designed.

Just on the theme of Jason’s question about ministerial travel, are you confident that all your Ministers are travelling for good enough reasons? Judith Collins a couple weeks ago travelled to Sydney to give a speech and become an adjunct professor of law at the Western Sydney University. She’s already got quite a few jobs. Does she need to be a professor in Sydney?

I can tell you, you know, we approve travel requests each week and I can tell you there’s a really good reason for why people go travelling. And, you know, as you know, in New Zealand we need to get out and about in the world, we need to, you know, step-change our relationships, we need to deepen them up and we need to put more urgency to them, and that’s what we’ve been doing. In between the work that Judith’s doing in the defence space— whether it’s hosting, you know, South Pacific Defence Ministers recently in Auckland, whether it’s her travel to defence meetings of Ministers like Shangri-La earlier in the year—she’s doing an exceptionally good job.

Did you set Winston Peters any KPIs for his attendance at the Melbourne Cup?

I’d just say to you, like, you can be flippant about it but the point is we’re trying to build a relationship with India and—

How does that happen at the Melbourne Cup?

Well, let me tell you how it happens, because it’s not just the Melbourne Cup; it’s a chance for a bilateral with Jaishankar, who is the Senior Foreign Affairs Minister. And if you think about a country in New Zealand that had very little connection to Indian—and the Indian Government in the way that we have worked at it, with Todd McClay making six connections with his Trade Minister—Winston Peters has been there. He’ll go back to India again. Judith Collins is on her way there. We’ve hosted the Indian President here. I’ve spoken with Prime Minister Modi, I’ve met with him and had good engagements with him recently in Laos, you know, and Dr Jaishankar is a key player for us to build relationship and rapport with. So, you know, that is his focus, to spend time with Penny Wong and Dr Jaishankar and talk about issues within the region. And yes, as Racing Minister, I don’t think it’s a—it’s not bad if he tacks that on at the end of the day to go to a racing meeting too.

Prime Minister, would you consider subsidising dental care for adults in New Zealand?

It’s not something that we’ve got on our radar right now. Obviously, you know that it’s free dental care for young children and adolescents under the age of 18. There are obviously payments available for people who desperately need to get dental care, low income folk in particular.

But really our focus has to be, in a healthcare system that is really challenged, is to make sure we focus on the things that we have to do. And right now, that is about getting waitlist times down in ED departments, first specialist appointments, elective surgeries, immunisations for under-twos, and obviously faster cancer treatment. And so, you know, we’d love to do everything, you know, and that’s why we’re working so hard to build a bigger economic engine to New Zealand so that we can lift the living standards of everybody and ultimately deliver better public services.

Have you had any or asked for any analysis to be done on whether introducing some kind of subsidisation for dental would take any pressure out of emergency departments or otherwise in the healthcare sector?

I personally haven’t been briefed on it. As you know, when we went to the election we talked about, you know, that is—you know, we would love to—we’d all love to have more, you know, more free dental care being made available to people. But right now, when we have a system that actually is really incredibly challenged, needs a deep, deep turnaround, we have to focus on making sure we deliver on the things that we said we would do.

And so, getting back to your earlier question, we want to make sure that people can get access to a cancer treatment plan within a certain period of time after having been diagnosed. We want to make sure that we work really hard on focusing our system to deliver that. We need to do a much better job of getting our waitlist times down for emergency department, those first specialist appointments, the elective surgeries. We know we’ve got a big, big job to do with under-twos with respect to critical immunisation, so we’re working with Plunket, we’re working with iwi organisations to get that job done as well. And at the same time, we’re trying to reform Health New Zealand so it’s a high-quality organisation, so as we put $17 billion extra into it over the next three years, we know we’re putting good money into a good system that’s going to deliver results and outcomes for New Zealanders.

So it’s a no from you for now, but “no” forever from you?

Well, we’d love to do a lot of things in healthcare, but again what we have to do is focus on the must-do stuff that we have to do right here, right now, and as I said to you, at the moment we’ve got no plans for that.

Prime Minister, with the maths trial programme, can you just confirm, will those sessions happen inside school hours or outside? Then once you’ve selected the 2,000 students, will it be mandatory or voluntary?

We’re going to try and make it as flexible as we can. Our intent is to try and make it within school time, but we are making it flexible so if schools decide that actually— and parents agree and children agree that after school a couple of times a week or at lunch times or during class time—we’re leaving that up to the school and working with parents and children to have the best outcomes. And what was the second part of your question?

Will it be mandatory for those students who you select?

No, of course not. No, no. I mean, I imagine, because I know parents very well, and parents are just so ambitious for their kids, as am I, that I have no doubt that they will want this intervention because we know that it’s evidence-based and we know one of the best things you can do is these really targeted, small group interventions over a short period of time, and I’m sure they’ll take up the opportunity.

With the wider roll-out of the literacy and maths structured programmes from next term, are you confident that all schools that are required to participate will be ready, and have you had any concerns raised with you that they might not be?

We’ve said consistently that there are many schools that have done structured literacy and they are ready for structured maths, and they have been asking for this from me for many months, which is why we announced it. We’ve also acknowledged that there are a number of schools out there who have not done structured literacy before, and asking them to do two things in one year is a massive ask. And so my message that I put out consistently to principals in schools is: work at your own pace, do one thing and do it well. And we’ve given advice to schools with mathematics, “If you just do one thing in Term 1 it might look like this. If you do the next thing in Term 2 it might look like this.”

This is a multi-year intervention. It’s going to take the good part of five years to get both of these implemented and implemented well. This is just the start, but we are in for the long haul with professional learning and development and with these maths books and resources for the foreseeable future.

Mark, last question.

Prime Minister, next week there’s going to be global leaders’ gathering in Azerbaijan for the climate summit. It’s been, I think, a decade since a New Zealand Prime Minister last attended one of these leaders’ summits. Do you want to attend one while you’re Prime Minister?

Yeah, I would like to get to one. Just again, as you know, just trying to balance out, you know, travel schedules across the year. In our first year, a lot of what I’ve been trying to do is make sure I’ve got the rapport and relationships in place with the world leaders that I have been meeting with. And so the key forum of ASEAN, the key forum of NATO and the IP4, the Pacific Island Forum, CHOGM and then APEC have really been where I’ve chosen to focus, along with a set of intensive bilaterals of visitors coming to New Zealand but also me visiting them with delegations often. So look, it’s something I’d love to get to in due course but at this point it’s not a priority this year.

OK, thank you team. Appreciate your time. See you.