Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday, 16 March 2020

Kia ora. So you talked about gatherings. Will there be like schools and universities—are they going to be closed in that area or—

So we have excluded schools and universities from the requirements around the cancellation of mass gatherings over 500, but we are asking the Ministry of Education to work with those institutions where they may have environments where that number of students may be congregating together, to try and mitigate against that. What we’re very mindful of is, actually, most universities will have the flexibility to try and reduce down the size of some of their lectures, use multiple meeting spaces in different ways. Some schools, though, are large and operate open-learning environments. We need to work with them closely to try and make sure they can comply with this guidance.

Have you thought about schools and universities?

I’ve been asked that many times to date. What I want to be really clear on is that there are different models out there around the world that have had different experiences with COVID-19. We do not want to be Italy. We do not want to be those countries who have experienced mass outbreak. But, actually, those countries that we do want to mirror—the likes of Taiwan—haven’t on mass shut down their schooling systems. They have, for instance, some countries—Singapore and others, you will have seen they might have done different things with school holidays. What we’re going to do is make sure that we take the actions that are required to keep New Zealanders safe, but I’ll listen to the evidence and advice around what is the best way to do that. We haven’t taken that decision at this point because we’re being told that that is not where New Zealand is at, nor necessarily would it protect and preserve the health of New Zealanders.

On mass gatherings, should we have done this sooner?

Well, you’ll see that with those in recent times, particularly some of the significant ones, particularly where Government’s been involved, we have. Now we’re giving very clear direction. If it’s a gathering of 500 or more, indoor or outdoor, it should be cancelled, and we’ll be given even further guidance later in the week.

What about things like gyms, going to places of worship, movie theatres, and the like—should people err on the side of caution?

Oh, so this is—there are actually some basic practices. So you may, for instance, have a movie theatre that has particular capacity, but there are ways you can mitigate people having close contact. What we want to make sure is that we produce commonsense guidelines on how to reduce close contact in those environments. But when it comes to some large gatherings like music festivals, frankly, it’s impossible, and so we’re better to cancel.

What about for people who are planning weddings or perhaps have an upcoming funeral—things like that. Don’t they need some certainty?

And that is exactly what we’ll be working on—that really prescriptive guidance and guidelines that people can use—and we’ll be producing that later in the week. I expect that will be out before the week is out.

Why will it take that long?

Because there is no one framework. Everyone has done something different.

Some countries have just put a cancellation in place for gatherings over a thousand, some it’s been 500, others have been silent on small gatherings, but when we look at those countries who’ve been successful, they’ve always been willing to look at the risks with everything. New Zealand is a small enough country that we can put out common-sense guidelines that say that if you are coming together, these are some common-sense things that you can do to look after yourselves. [Interruption] Just one at a time everyone. I will stay long enough to get your questions.

With that guidance coming out later in the week, do you expect that 500 number to reduce or is that number going to stay where it is for some time?

Under certain circumstances, yes, because actually there are certain circumstances: whether you’re in close proximity and it’s a large number of people. That’s why it’s really important we get that extra guidance out there. Again, I’m not going to run through multiple scenarios. What’s best is if I compile all of that information and make it publicly available to every New Zealander, because some people, of course, organise their own events and need this kind of guidance for them too. Again I’m not going to go further on this speculation on this. We’re going to get the guidance compiled based on evidence and distribute it for all New Zealanders.

You would deport visitors. What would do to Kiwi citizens, permanent residents?

Will you fine them if they don’t comply with self-isolation?

So those who are here, of course we’ve got powers already to require them to self-isolate or be quarantined. Essentially, what we’re able to do there is if we find someone who’s not voluntarily self-isolating, we have the ability for them to be in an institution—a hospital, for instance—and we can, for instance, put a police officer on their door to make sure they don’t leave the facility. But, actually, I want to step back for a moment and remind everyone, 10,500 people, a vast majority of them New Zealanders, have successfully selfisolated. When you hear people talking about it at the airport this morning, people understand that this is not just about them; it’s about their whole entire community. And I absolutely fiercely believe the vast majority of New Zealanders want to look out for one another and will unite to make sure that they’re following these requirements.

Prime Minister, you wielded a big stick for visitors. Do you not do the same—the Director-General of Health raised the prospect of potentially fining people who don’t selfisolate.

Oh yes. That is possible, absolutely. If we turn those forms into statutory declarations, which we intend to, they could also carry fines. I think actually, though, our focus has to be making sure people comply, and we already have a pretty big stick there for both visitors and New Zealanders. My goal is that we never have to use them, because people will want to look after one another’s health and New Zealanders have proven thus far that that is their focus.

Just on the advice that you received, you said that it could possibly be worse than the global financial crisis. So are you predicting a recession?

Well, based on that advice, obviously, because the GFC led to a recession and so obviously based on that advice, that is the suggestion from Treasury. But I am going to leave that further discussion for the Minister of Finance, who will be giving you further information and the entire package tomorrow.

For private events, say those criteria that you’re going to put out generally, how can you police those? I mean, if they’re weddings and things like that. How can you make sure that people are abiding by the criteria?

Yeah, and obviously this is not just something that New Zealand is facing. These are recommendations we’re putting out for the health and wellbeing of all New Zealanders. And I think people who are putting on private events will really appreciate having that guidance about how to look after themselves and others who they may be wishing to put events on for. I do recognise that, actually, already some of the measures we’ve put in place have affected weddings. I know people who have already had weddings affected because of the border controls, and I know how devastating that must be—you know, I can only imagine—but, ultimately, these are hard calls we’re having to make for the long term and the best interests of everyone.

Will more resources get put into, say, immigration and stuff like that to look into, like, temporary visa holders who might be breaking these rules?

Oh, well, at this stage, of course, we’re expecting that, really, the load on, for instance, border control is likely to shift, as our number of people coming into New Zealand is likely to decline—so making sure that we’re using that workforce appropriately at the border. There will be a number of areas where you’ll see us looking to redeploy Government staff across areas of high demand, where we have, in other areas, much lower demand. We do need to be flexible at this time.

Will you be releasing the Treasury advice tomorrow alongside the package?

As I’ve said, this is preliminary advice, and so I’ll leave those matters to Minister Grant Robertson.

What are the latest numbers in terms of this virus in New Zealand?

Obviously, we’ve already had the release over the weekend of New Zealand’s cases. We’ve still got eight, plus two probable, and continuing on an ongoing basis, we have those 1 o’clock updates that come from the Ministry of Health. But, again, we are not in a space of community transmission. We know the source of our cases, and we’re working hard to continue to maintain 100 percent contract tracing as we go. That is how we flatten the curb; that’s how we move form a tidal wave to small waves that we can manage.

Do you believe it’s still viable to hold the general election on September 19 given the likely duration of this pandemic?

There are no plans to change that at this time. You will have seen, around the world, other plans are in place in other places, but that’s been where their elections have much greater proximity.

Are you thinking of changing the election date?

No, I’m saying at this point there is no basis on which for us to do that at this point. We are some distance from the general election.

Are you seeking advice on alternative voting options, though? You do have new powers under the Electoral Act to allow online voting for the domestic voters.

Not at this stage.

Did you talk to Scott Morrison about the border controls from the weekend—

Yes.

—before the weekend—and did you consider, both of you, perhaps having an exemption for trans-Tasman travel?

Yes, I did speak to Prime Minister Scott Morrison before Cabinet met. It was important for me to be able to convey the view of—and at least, of course, ensure that we had a discussion with Australia and convey the view, as we were considering what we might do as a Cabinet. The issue, though, I’m very clear on: were there any proposed exemptions for anyone, but including Australia. There was no scientific basis by which we would have an exclusion for Australia. They have community transmission, and so I could not provide you, hand on heart, a good rationale for why they were excluded, other than one that was about politics and our connection, and at the moment our decisions have to be based on science and evidence. I see that they’ve included us in theirs as well.

Could we reach a point where we’re shutting down bars and restaurants?

Look, again, it’s all about making sure that you’re able to maintain, in whatever environment you’re in, social distancing. That’s the way that we have to start behaving now; that is our new normal.

How about the requisitioning of hotels as makeshift hospital beds?

Oh, look, ultimately, we have a pandemic plan in place so that we can build up and scale up our response as required. And, yes, that does mean using—I’m not speaking specifically to your example—alternate facilities as required. That’s operational work, of course, that the Ministry of Health does in conjunction with other Government agencies.

How long are the provisions in place for?

We have no end date for them presently.

There’s a lot of expectation for businesses looking at the announcement for tomorrow. Are you able to give them any assurances tonight about who this will apply to and who will be in as part of that catchment?

I’ll repeat what I’ve said over many days now. Our absolute focus has been making sure that we support those businesses who are already feeling the effects of COVID-19, and those who forecast to feel the effects because, essentially, their business has turned off overnight. The reason we’re tailoring that package is because that means that we can try and give them the kind of support that will help them ride out the worst impact of COVID-19. It’s also about trying to give them time. We are having to plan here for a new normal, and trying to make sure that we give them the time to do that with the support package we provide.

[Inaudible] definitely part of the mix?

Again, I’ll leave the specifics to the Minister of Finance. We have, of course, been very mindful that there’s businesses of different sizes, different capacity, different capability, who will be feeling the impacts of COVID-19.

Those regulations you’re going to—or guidance later in the week. Will the House come under those? You know, the gathering of Parliament?

PM

No, Parliament doesn’t. However, I know the Speaker is working on some of his own provisions to ensure that Parliament is a place that’s being responsible in the current environment that we’re in. And so I really direct you to the Speaker of the House, because he has outlined—at least to members of Parliament—some of his expectations of the way that Parliament will operate from now going forward.

Media

How exactly, when you came to a decision to require people from outside to selfisolate, and what data fed into that? Was it the States, was it the mass transition there, or was it just other pressure?

PM

Data. All through this we have been driven by the science, looking at what’s happening overseas with transmission rates, deciding, of course, that it was in New Zealand’s best interests to do everything we can to slow down the rate of transmission. We will have more cases in New Zealand. COVID-19 will be with the world for a long time to come, so we need to make sure we do everything we can to flatten it, and if we have waves that they’re small and manageable waves of transmission. And so that’s been the basis of all our decision making. When it comes to the border controls, for me, every time we receive that data around what’s happening at different hotspots, that says we’ve moved our border controls to match that, and to try and, as much as we can, slow the transmission in New Zealand.

Media

Was that [Inaudible] or Friday afternoon, or—how long has that been—

PM

You will remember on Friday I started talking about the fact that we were looking—in fact, on Thursday—broadening, so we knew that we needed to broaden our border restrictions. And we weren’t afraid of those decisions, but we also needed to make sure we continued sea and air freight, and there were some other considerations. So we made those decisions fairly promptly, but they were also informed by evidence.

Media

Air New Zealand’s reportedly looking at cutting 30 percent of its staff. Is that premature and is the Government talking to them about that?

PM

Look, I can’t comment on either the financial position of Air New Zealand or the commercial decisions that they’re looking to make, but this is something that we are aware of, and I expect that there will be ongoing dialogue.

Media

What about school camps?

PM

School camps, again, some of this will come down to the size of camps, and the way that they’re operating. So I’m not going to here and now give individual decisions on individual events. The best thing I can do is actually give definitive advice that everyone around the country can use and that will be a useful resource, and that’s what’s being designed right now.

Media

So that—[Inaudible]

PM

All of that depends on where we are in the transmission around COVID. But I imagine that the guidance we provide will be useful for those events as well.

Media

Will school holidays be brought forward or extended?

PM

Again, you heard me just talk earlier around some of the issues relating to schools. So, as I said, transmission rates amongst children are—is under 3 percent, and that’s of recorded transmission rates. And so COVID-19 hasn’t proven to be particularly—for want of a better word—problematic for children themselves, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an impact on the community around them. We have to be mindful, if we shut schools, where do children go?

Potentially their grandparents, or to other social situations that could exacerbate our situation. Every decision we make will be based on evidence and the best interests of children and New Zealanders, but we’re not at the point now where we’re closing schools in order to achieve that.

Media

Are you reprioritising any of the normal business of Government? I mean, we heard today from the Reserve Bank that Treasury, ComCom, FMA are all looking at what regulatory stuff they can actually ease back on. Is there a formal process for that across the Government, given the other challenges of this—

PM

My expectation is that Ministers, at the moment, give space for departments, particularly who are at the front line, to work directly on COVID-19, and to focus on that. I think it’s fair to say that this is taking an all-of-Government approach.

Whether or not even a department is directly involved in COVID-19, we’re actually calling on Government departments and agencies who aren’t, in order to support our efforts.

So this is all-of-Government. We are putting huge pressure on our public servants, and they are responding magnificently, but it is at a scale that is significant, and so I do ask people: if you call Healthline and you have delays, yes, we are putting in more resources. More staff are going in immediately, but you may experience a little bit of delay while we scale up for this unprecedented event. Likewise, MSD services and others. But all of them are working incredibly hard and are incredible professionals.

If closing schools is a risk as far as children becoming vectors to their grandparents goes, would you look at cancelling school holidays?

Again, we’re going to make sure that we are working based on evidence. So one of the issues is whether or not people, when they have shorter time available—what kind of care arrangements they make that might be different to school holidays. We’re thinking through all of this. But no, we don’t currently have in the agenda a plan to cancel school holidays.

For the mass gatherings, the timing, is it immediately, or what’s the time frame around that?

Yes, that’s our hope. I understand that there’ll be some that may well be midway or under way, and that might cause difficulties. Our expectation is that this is enacted as quickly as possible.

Fed Farmers wants a moratorium on any further regulations—ETS, climate change - related type things—until there’s more certainty with the economy. Is the Government considering that?

No, not at this stage.

Do you have a message for the tourism industry around how long these travel restrictions could be in place? As you say, COVID is around for a long time.

Yeah, and I know that they are craving that certainty. At present, obviously, we’ve said that we’ll be looking again at our border restrictions in 16 days, but that’s an opportunity for us to look at what international transmission is looking like. Anyone can see, when they open the paper, that those numbers are not declining at present. The community transmission, the global outbreak—we’re still seeing countries continuing on an upward trend. And so that was a preliminary—obviously, that’s a point where we review, but I think they can expect that there will be an extension. Beyond that, that is why what we’re trying to put certainty into is some of what we’re providing in our business continuity package, because they are surrounded by so much uncertainty with the pandemic.

What’s the view on the Back Your Backyard campaign in terms of domestic tourism, given that kind of people are promoting, say, travel within New Zealand, but then you’ve got the issue of social distancing. What’s your sort of advice in that regard, or your view?

Yeah. When you’re making your plans, think about social distancing, thinking about—and in everything. This is regardless of whether or not it’s going to another town or another city. Think about your social distancing at all times. If you’re close enough for someone to spit on you when they talk, you’re too close. Now, I know that, actually, we may be a country that has a relatively small population, but we’re a country who loves to show our hospitality by greeting people properly, by being in close contact. We’re going to have to change that for now, but I do think that that’s something that, actually, together is totally achievable. This is where I am calling on New Zealanders. These are the kinds of things. When we have emergencies, when we have situations that are unprecedented, New Zealanders, just by nature, work together. We’re asking you to work together but just with a little distance between you.

What, then, about public transport? It’s impossible to get social distancing.

Yeah, and, look, we are a country that, thankfully, doesn’t have necessarily that crammed-in always mass transit. But as much as possible, asking people to try and make the kinds of arrangements that allow them to give a little bit of space on public transport.

Will that change in 16 days?

Look, at this point, people can see what I can see. When you look out at what’s happening around the world, I see it as being very unlikely, in 16 days, that those provisions will change, but we will keep reviewing and we’ll make those decisions in the best interests of New Zealanders. I’ll take the last couple of questions.

Yeah, there was talk in Britain about asking people aged 70 or over to stay at home because they’re more vulnerable to coronavirus. Is that something that you discussed today, or something Government’s looking into?

No, it’s not something that we discussed today, but these are discussions that I’ve certainly heard amongst the wider international community. Again, it all depends at the stage that your country is in when it comes to transmission. Regardless, there is a practice that I want everyone to adopt from now: look out for older New Zealanders. Look out for kaumātua. Make sure that if you are unwell, that you keep your distance from them. If they have needs that need to be met, make sure that community are providing for them, but who are well. And if you don’t need to visit an aged-care facility, do your very best to only make essential visits or, especially if you’re well, do not go near an aged-care facility. These are simple things we can do to look after our older citizens.

With the finance Minister tied up with the economic packages he’s doing at the moment, is that likely to have any impact on Budget day?

Oh, of course, we’d gone through quite a significant process for the Budget, but it’s fair to say, these are extraordinary circumstances. We are having to look again at making sure the Budget is a second tranche for us to be responsive to the COVID-19 response.

[Inaudible] though, as a result?

Ultimately, content is also something that we have to look at, but those decisions, those are for the Minister of Finance.

When you announced the recommended public meetings on Saturday, you introduced something called the “East Coast Wave”, and I don’t know if it is, a lot of New Zealanders, it seems, don’t know what it is. Are you able to demonstrate?

I just gave it with such subtlety; you didn’t even notice. Who can demonstrate the East Coast Wave? You had a whole audience to suddenly give it to you. Maybe an excuse to visit Gisborne.

Have you considered bringing the Opposition into any of these decision-making processes?

We have been offering briefings and, of course, I’ll be making sure that we do the same with this package at the appropriate time. But, for instance, when we had an issue around two additional cases, there were questions from the health spokesperson. He was even briefed by the Director-General and the Minister of Health, parliamentary briefings. I’ve also made some offers to the Leader of the Opposition myself. I continue to hold the view that this isn’t something that there should be politics over.

Not decision making, just briefings?

No, just briefings. Key here is that we have to make sure we act quickly and decisively. I’m not willing to slow down that process. I do not believe, however, there should be politics in responding to what is the global issue of COVID-19.

Well, can Tracey Martin zoom into Cabinet today, and are you happy with her not being tested when she sat next to Peter Dutton for over an hour?

So, yes she was on the line for Cabinet—the first point. The second point is I expect all MPs and all Ministers to follow exactly the same expectations of public health guidance that we would of the public. So, ultimately, it will be up to the GP as to whether or not they believe a Minister should be tested, or an MP, in the same way it would for a member of the public. The same rules will apply. If a GP believes, or any clinician believes, that they should conduct a test, then they should. We have significant testing capacity in New Zealand. By later in the week it’ll be up to 1,500 tests a day. That’s not the issue. It’s ultimately a decision, though, for clinicians.

But you would expect a member of the public, if they’d sat next to someone—

No.

—who was positive for an hour to be tested.

No, that’s actually not correct, but that’s a fair assumption, Audrey. So I’ll just—let me give a little explanation on how close contacts are dealt with. So if someone is diagnosed with COVID-19, then public health will contact-trace those who have been in close proximity, and you know the guidelines for that—a certain period of time in close proximity and so on. Those individuals are then asked to self-isolate. The reason they’re asked to self-isolate is (a) a test won’t necessarily always demonstrate if you have COVID19. Secondly, actually, we want to make sure that if you get a test that says you’re negative that you don’t go out into the public when, actually, at some point, you become symptomatic. We would rather you take the option of remaining self-isolated because that is the best precautionary approach that we can provide and it ensures that you do not risk affecting anyone else. That is the public health guidance and that’s what you’ll see our Ministers and MPs are doing.

What about the people that she’s then come into contact with—

No. They’re called secondary contacts and they’re treated differently than close contacts.

And so is [Inaudible]

Yes, because we are considered to be secondary rather than close contacts. OK, everyone, I’ll be seeing you again tomorrow.